I'm surprised Baylor does any research at all. Christians seem to be of the opinion that they already know the truth. Don't confuse them with facts or scientific research, they already know the truth.
My hope is that one day Christians will be the marginalized minority and we can point at them and laugh but then show them what compassion looks like.
That's why they are so desperate to cling to power. They are afraid that we will do to them what they have done to us. It is beyond their understanding to think that we just want them to be ok.
The taint from Donnie Dumb-Ass' dislike of anything having to do with Diversity, Equity, or Inclusion seems to have spread to Baylor University. "Oh, Christians aren't going to LIKE this," say some, while ignoring the fact that not all Christians are in Trump's camp, and ditto other religious groups, never mind atheists and agnostics. Once again, those same bigoted Christians are granted the leverage to cajole an establishment of learning into deferring to their bigotry.
"...study how LGBTQ+ people are disenfranchised and excluded from religious communities in order to help churches better understand how to include them in their ministries..."
Baylor isn't really known as a research institution. The federal research grants they receive comes in miles below the bottom rung of the Big Ten universities. I base this on my brother having worked in public relations for one of those Universities for decades. I don't understand why anyone would pay twice as much for a second rate education these schools offer.
As an outsider, I know little of US universities, outside of two or three of the world-famous ones. Please be charitable about what follows.
The fact that anyone would trust an establishment of Baylor's reputation as reported here to carry out $650,000-worth of research into such an investigation must mean that they trust the researchers to do a good job. Unfortunately the university's president has decided to undermine that trust. Let's face it; the aim was to find ways to get more people into churches, just not THAT sort of people, it seems.
I have no idea how well Baylor educates its students, but I object to the idea that a school that isn't reliable for proper scientific-method research, either in the sciences or the method-needed humanities like history, can't possibly provide a decent undergraduate education. Back when I was an engineering lead and then an engineering manager, I found that some interviewing candidates from high-ranking schools were interesting, and some were just egos housed in human bodies. Similarly, some from "lowly" state schools were meh, and some were outstanding. Though, mind you, the subject was computer engineering. I needed people to design hardware and/or write software. One can do those things and be a complete secularist, an extreme believer in any of various religions, or somewhere in-between. Other subjects, YMMV. Wildly.
Ben Franklin touched on the subject by looking back into history for the present character of the then-Christian sects and noting that few of them had not been in their turns both persecutors and complainers of persecution.
Here we see a perfect example of why a group like Recovering From Religion should have been allowed to have a table at St. Johns pride celebration. The mere idea of studying how a church organization could be more inclusive of the LGBTQ community sparked a fire of religious hate and bigotry. This is the same school, BTW, that ignored its problem with sexual assault against women students even after several football players were convicted and sent to prison. It's why Ken Starr was relieved of his position there.
I don't know why anyone would send their kids to a school that promotes that kind of hate. Anybody still wondering why Baylor alums Chip and Joanna Gaines are under fire from the Religion of Love™️ for allowing a gay couple on their reality TV show?
My wife watches a lot of HGTV. Chip and Joanna are her peeps. I shared the story with her yesterday. She is having a very hard time understanding why xtians would behave this way.
You can refer her to my lengthy response yesterday. The explanation is all there. When you’re done, please send me some money. Somebody has to pay for my coffee in the morning.
My reason for having a husband is that somebody got to fix the car, clean the house pay for holiday trips, totally spoiling me and driving on the wrong side of the road while we are on holiday in England. And good 7-1.
I can understand your wife's confusion. Chip and Joanna portray very nice, decent neighbors on their TV show, but the reality is far different. IOW, you can't believe everything you see on TV.
So stupid question I guess, but has she actually read the bible? She sounds like she's probably a pretty nice person, and most nice people have issues with at least some of what is presented there.
Lock up your irony meter in a lead lines reinforced concrete containment vessel.
I got an e-mail from Medicare. It starts out:
"Beware of scammers, sometimes posing as salespeople, offering "free" services or gifts. They may be trying to trick you into signing up for hospice care without your knowledge."
It then offers some basic common sense advice about recognizing the scam and what not to do. So far, so good.
Here's where you'll be glad that you weren't injured by the shrapnel blast from your irony meter.
It says "A message from Dr. Oz on the latest scam"
Read the whole thing, but here are some lowlights:
"Oz has even given time to batshit crazies such as Deepak Chopra and Joseph Mercola, the latter described as a “pioneer in alternative medicine” and “a man your doctor doesn’t want you to know.”"
"embracing homeopathy publicly and promoting it on his show in a segment called The Homeopathy Starter Kit. And with his “15 Superfoods” segment he has entered something frighteningly reminiscent of Kevin Trudeau-land."
"Oz has furthermore promoted faith healing, “energy medicine”, reiki, and appeared on ABC News to give legitimacy to the claims of Brazilian faith healer “John of God,” who uses old carnival tricks to solicit money from the seriously ill."
"Dr Oz is the proud winner of the James Randi Educational Foundation's Pigasus Award (Media section) in both 2010 and 2011 for doing “such a disservice to his TV viewers by promoting quack medical practices that he is now the first person to win a Pigasus two years in a row.”"
There you go. Just another sewer clown in the tRump Circus From Hell.
Xtians got hot under the collar because of a research grant that tells the truth? A truth that is a documented fact and is hardly what one might refer to as a secret?
LGBTQs are part of a far-larger campaign by xtians at war with seemingly everyone...
Christians were responsible for the part of embarrassing history properly called the "Dark Ages" for very good reasons. THEY KILLED ANYONE WHO CHALLENGED THE "FACTS" IN THE BIBLE (pronounced 'buy-bull')... nuff said.
A research study to help quantify just how anti-LGBTG fundies are, and what steps to take to be less bigoted makes the fundies heads explode. The fundies then kill the study. Bigots gonna bigot, and blame the victim for their bigotry.
In other breaking news, bears are shitting in the woods.
To travel 100 years back in time, just reread the article replacing every occurence of "LGBTQ+ people" with "people of color" and every "same sex marriage" with "mixed race marriage". The same hate, just targetting a different category of people.
If I replace the occurrence of "LGBTQ+ people" with the word "Irish" will I go to a time when I can get typhoid? I have a job interview to be an assistant to RFK jr. and I want to show him that I am willing to go the extra mile. And I know that he loves infectious diseases.
"it paints LGBTQ+ people are victims of religious persecution."
No painting needed. We are and have been throughout western history thanks to the "religion of love."
Not one of these critics is concerned with actual issues like starving children, genocide, human trafficking, destruction of the natural environment, only in promoting hatred. Every one of them did however vote for an adulterer, convicted felon, rapist and conman.
Xtians have no moral high ground on any issue whatsoever. A bankrupt ideology premised upon violence and hatred. This is why churches are emptying out across the western world.
This reminds me very much of the one time I had a discussion of LGBTQA+ people with my mother. I pointed out that one way or another, she would have to deal with them as they are part of the public, and she shouted back at me that no, she didn't because her Jesus said so. It really wasn't a good look for her, and it made me incredibly grateful I was hetero. I've wondered many times what might have happened to me if I had preferred my own gender.
Some Christians seem to need people to hate to make their faith work for them, and that may well be the single most d*mn*#$^ evaluation of their religion by itself. Baylor making decisions by social media response isn't what I'd call wise, but it is the sort of thing I've come to expect out of Christian organizations of all stripes. This will come up again and again, because truthfully, this is how that religion operates.
Mom and dad are several years deceased now, and stayed married to my father for the duration of their lives; I never considered the matter. If she preferred women, it never showed at any other time, so yeah. Don't know, and it's not really relevant anymore.
I came out of fundamentalist Baptism after living almost 50 years by its rules, including being an obedient, serving wife and closeted lesbian. My late husband broke my heart. He (never a Baptist, but still a conservative Christian) loved me unconditionally, and I had never been loved that way (before or since). Only when I realized how much he delighted in everything about me while part of my love to him was duty and obedience, but never joy, did I realize what my “obedience” took from him.
When I decided to look for community again, I decided to look for an LGBTQ+ affirming church - more difficult in a very conservative area. The first one I tried was an “affirming” denomination, and in a few months noticed nothing affirming in the church itself. Since someone had told me that their United Methodist Church was quietly ignoring affirming LGBTQ, I decided this church must be, too. I googled LGBTQ affirming church with my location then. A large community church showed up at the top of the listing. Cool. I will try there. A few months go by. Nothing obviously affirming. Finally ask pastor. Nope. They love LGBTQ as long as they are obedient to a strict reading of the Biblical text.
In a world like that, being out, even if you agree to remain celibate, makes you a second class citizen. You’re either someone to pity, to fix, or to fear. That is what is wrong with the Baptist church. Until they realize that every person who they don’t understand is of equal value, they won’t be capable of much more.
What really disturbed me about the recent experience: whomever runs their website had to have tweaked SEO to show up at the top of the list like that. Talk about a calculated approach. In their misguided worldview, of course, this is “reaching the lost,” but for a hurting human being assured their existence is an abomination, it is a calculated bait-and-switch, and a lie.
I'm surprised Baylor does any research at all. Christians seem to be of the opinion that they already know the truth. Don't confuse them with facts or scientific research, they already know the truth.
My hope is that one day Christians will be the marginalized minority and we can point at them and laugh but then show them what compassion looks like.
That's why they are so desperate to cling to power. They are afraid that we will do to them what they have done to us. It is beyond their understanding to think that we just want them to be ok.
They do research. It's just that all the research papers have the same citation.
Amen
“Facts”.
The taint from Donnie Dumb-Ass' dislike of anything having to do with Diversity, Equity, or Inclusion seems to have spread to Baylor University. "Oh, Christians aren't going to LIKE this," say some, while ignoring the fact that not all Christians are in Trump's camp, and ditto other religious groups, never mind atheists and agnostics. Once again, those same bigoted Christians are granted the leverage to cajole an establishment of learning into deferring to their bigotry.
Bloody fucking lovely.
The hateful are
But all those people should be in trump’s camp, so we will force them to be.
Its not Trump's dislike. He's just pandering to his bigoted base is all.
"...study how LGBTQ+ people are disenfranchised and excluded from religious communities in order to help churches better understand how to include them in their ministries..."
Quit being bigots.
Where's my grant money.
Check underneath your sofa cushions.
Eula Mae and John Baugh have never sat on my sofa.
𝔊𝔬𝔡 𝔴𝔦𝔩𝔩 𝔭𝔯𝔬𝔳𝔦𝔡𝔢.
Not interested in eternal rewards. I want cash, now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdPM6j1Q4sg
Holy shit (biblical reference), they have EVERYTHING on UTube.
"It's my money and I want it now!!!"
Oh gods, I remember that commercial. :D
I'll pay you some of my Soro's protesting money I was promised.
Baylor isn't really known as a research institution. The federal research grants they receive comes in miles below the bottom rung of the Big Ten universities. I base this on my brother having worked in public relations for one of those Universities for decades. I don't understand why anyone would pay twice as much for a second rate education these schools offer.
As an outsider, I know little of US universities, outside of two or three of the world-famous ones. Please be charitable about what follows.
The fact that anyone would trust an establishment of Baylor's reputation as reported here to carry out $650,000-worth of research into such an investigation must mean that they trust the researchers to do a good job. Unfortunately the university's president has decided to undermine that trust. Let's face it; the aim was to find ways to get more people into churches, just not THAT sort of people, it seems.
Baylor isn't in the Big Ten (18 schools). They are in the Big 12(16 schools). Math is not a priority in either conference. : )
What a hoot. Marketing marketing marketing. Numerical conference names aren’t the great idea they thought it would be, apparently.
The cult demands it?
I have no idea how well Baylor educates its students, but I object to the idea that a school that isn't reliable for proper scientific-method research, either in the sciences or the method-needed humanities like history, can't possibly provide a decent undergraduate education. Back when I was an engineering lead and then an engineering manager, I found that some interviewing candidates from high-ranking schools were interesting, and some were just egos housed in human bodies. Similarly, some from "lowly" state schools were meh, and some were outstanding. Though, mind you, the subject was computer engineering. I needed people to design hardware and/or write software. One can do those things and be a complete secularist, an extreme believer in any of various religions, or somewhere in-between. Other subjects, YMMV. Wildly.
I never said you couldn’t get a decent education at Baylor, only that they are not ranked very high as a research institution.
Once again, we see Christian persecution. And once again, we see that it is Christians doing the persecuting.
And they will claim 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 are being persecuted when called out for it.
Ben Franklin touched on the subject by looking back into history for the present character of the then-Christian sects and noting that few of them had not been in their turns both persecutors and complainers of persecution.
Every accusation…
Here we see a perfect example of why a group like Recovering From Religion should have been allowed to have a table at St. Johns pride celebration. The mere idea of studying how a church organization could be more inclusive of the LGBTQ community sparked a fire of religious hate and bigotry. This is the same school, BTW, that ignored its problem with sexual assault against women students even after several football players were convicted and sent to prison. It's why Ken Starr was relieved of his position there.
I don't know why anyone would send their kids to a school that promotes that kind of hate. Anybody still wondering why Baylor alums Chip and Joanna Gaines are under fire from the Religion of Love™️ for allowing a gay couple on their reality TV show?
My wife watches a lot of HGTV. Chip and Joanna are her peeps. I shared the story with her yesterday. She is having a very hard time understanding why xtians would behave this way.
I know, I know, I’m working on it.
You can refer her to my lengthy response yesterday. The explanation is all there. When you’re done, please send me some money. Somebody has to pay for my coffee in the morning.
Isn't it why you have a husband ?
In theory, he’s paying for it. I let him think so.
My reason for having a husband is that somebody got to fix the car, clean the house pay for holiday trips, totally spoiling me and driving on the wrong side of the road while we are on holiday in England. And good 7-1.
I take out the trash and kill the roaches. That is the extent of my usefulness.
7-1?
All seven days in one week, all weeks.
I’m on it!
I can understand your wife's confusion. Chip and Joanna portray very nice, decent neighbors on their TV show, but the reality is far different. IOW, you can't believe everything you see on TV.
So stupid question I guess, but has she actually read the bible? She sounds like she's probably a pretty nice person, and most nice people have issues with at least some of what is presented there.
OT:
Lock up your irony meter in a lead lines reinforced concrete containment vessel.
I got an e-mail from Medicare. It starts out:
"Beware of scammers, sometimes posing as salespeople, offering "free" services or gifts. They may be trying to trick you into signing up for hospice care without your knowledge."
It then offers some basic common sense advice about recognizing the scam and what not to do. So far, so good.
Here's where you'll be glad that you weren't injured by the shrapnel blast from your irony meter.
It says "A message from Dr. Oz on the latest scam"
Yes, that Dr, Oz: https://americanloons.blogspot.com/2014/04/1006-mehmet-oz.html
Read the whole thing, but here are some lowlights:
"Oz has even given time to batshit crazies such as Deepak Chopra and Joseph Mercola, the latter described as a “pioneer in alternative medicine” and “a man your doctor doesn’t want you to know.”"
"embracing homeopathy publicly and promoting it on his show in a segment called The Homeopathy Starter Kit. And with his “15 Superfoods” segment he has entered something frighteningly reminiscent of Kevin Trudeau-land."
"Oz has furthermore promoted faith healing, “energy medicine”, reiki, and appeared on ABC News to give legitimacy to the claims of Brazilian faith healer “John of God,” who uses old carnival tricks to solicit money from the seriously ill."
"Dr Oz is the proud winner of the James Randi Educational Foundation's Pigasus Award (Media section) in both 2010 and 2011 for doing “such a disservice to his TV viewers by promoting quack medical practices that he is now the first person to win a Pigasus two years in a row.”"
There you go. Just another sewer clown in the tRump Circus From Hell.
Only the best people.
I received that same e-mail from Medicare. When I saw Dr. Oz featured, I immediately marked it as spam.
Dr Oz’s picture should be on the SPAM can
Not really. Spam at least has some degree of nutrition. Oz? Not so much.
Ooooo, I’m waiting for mine. I better check my junk folder. Fitting if it’s in there.
Xtians got hot under the collar because of a research grant that tells the truth? A truth that is a documented fact and is hardly what one might refer to as a secret?
LGBTQs are part of a far-larger campaign by xtians at war with seemingly everyone...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
Christians were responsible for the part of embarrassing history properly called the "Dark Ages" for very good reasons. THEY KILLED ANYONE WHO CHALLENGED THE "FACTS" IN THE BIBLE (pronounced 'buy-bull')... nuff said.
Buy bull, I'm going to start using that. Thanks.
A research study to help quantify just how anti-LGBTG fundies are, and what steps to take to be less bigoted makes the fundies heads explode. The fundies then kill the study. Bigots gonna bigot, and blame the victim for their bigotry.
In other breaking news, bears are shitting in the woods.
"Baptist........help churches be more inclusive"
Hooo, heeee, ha, ha.. ROTFLMAO.
Nothing to say except, let's hope the funds will go to an actual university and not a brainwashing factory.
To travel 100 years back in time, just reread the article replacing every occurence of "LGBTQ+ people" with "people of color" and every "same sex marriage" with "mixed race marriage". The same hate, just targetting a different category of people.
If I replace the occurrence of "LGBTQ+ people" with the word "Irish" will I go to a time when I can get typhoid? I have a job interview to be an assistant to RFK jr. and I want to show him that I am willing to go the extra mile. And I know that he loves infectious diseases.
And the same haters.
OT - Sauron after a bender
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap250716.html
https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/1400_opt_1/48d2f827840217.5636b968107cc.jpg
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/science-behind-yellowstones-rainbow-hot-spring-180950483/
I think that Sauron needs to lay off the Mad Dog 20/20!
The really old timers called it “Mule Driver 20/20.”
https://www.joblo.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/futurama-revival-bender-return-1280x720.jpg
Edit: I was beaten!
I suggest that Sauron see either an opthamologist or an optometrist about that.
Or maybe a proctologist?
Not all of us with blue eyes are on benders, though these days it sounds like a good idea.
"it paints LGBTQ+ people are victims of religious persecution."
No painting needed. We are and have been throughout western history thanks to the "religion of love."
Not one of these critics is concerned with actual issues like starving children, genocide, human trafficking, destruction of the natural environment, only in promoting hatred. Every one of them did however vote for an adulterer, convicted felon, rapist and conman.
Xtians have no moral high ground on any issue whatsoever. A bankrupt ideology premised upon violence and hatred. This is why churches are emptying out across the western world.
They do care about human trafficking, but only if libruls do it.
You mean when liberals are helping people fleeing from war and extermination, getting to a safer place and/or country? Damn those liberals.
They are not emptying fast enough, unfortunately.
My little town has 4 or 5 that have been converted to houses, etc. There are still too many but it gives me hope.
This reminds me very much of the one time I had a discussion of LGBTQA+ people with my mother. I pointed out that one way or another, she would have to deal with them as they are part of the public, and she shouted back at me that no, she didn't because her Jesus said so. It really wasn't a good look for her, and it made me incredibly grateful I was hetero. I've wondered many times what might have happened to me if I had preferred my own gender.
Some Christians seem to need people to hate to make their faith work for them, and that may well be the single most d*mn*#$^ evaluation of their religion by itself. Baylor making decisions by social media response isn't what I'd call wise, but it is the sort of thing I've come to expect out of Christian organizations of all stripes. This will come up again and again, because truthfully, this is how that religion operates.
It is only natural for conservative pack animalists to hate people who aren't like them.
Mom is a closeted lesbian? Very good probability. The louder they scream the harder they are fighting their Gay deres.
Mom and dad are several years deceased now, and stayed married to my father for the duration of their lives; I never considered the matter. If she preferred women, it never showed at any other time, so yeah. Don't know, and it's not really relevant anymore.
Still waiting on jesus to tell me shit
I don’t need him to tell me to shit.
"Shit." 😁
I came out of fundamentalist Baptism after living almost 50 years by its rules, including being an obedient, serving wife and closeted lesbian. My late husband broke my heart. He (never a Baptist, but still a conservative Christian) loved me unconditionally, and I had never been loved that way (before or since). Only when I realized how much he delighted in everything about me while part of my love to him was duty and obedience, but never joy, did I realize what my “obedience” took from him.
When I decided to look for community again, I decided to look for an LGBTQ+ affirming church - more difficult in a very conservative area. The first one I tried was an “affirming” denomination, and in a few months noticed nothing affirming in the church itself. Since someone had told me that their United Methodist Church was quietly ignoring affirming LGBTQ, I decided this church must be, too. I googled LGBTQ affirming church with my location then. A large community church showed up at the top of the listing. Cool. I will try there. A few months go by. Nothing obviously affirming. Finally ask pastor. Nope. They love LGBTQ as long as they are obedient to a strict reading of the Biblical text.
In a world like that, being out, even if you agree to remain celibate, makes you a second class citizen. You’re either someone to pity, to fix, or to fear. That is what is wrong with the Baptist church. Until they realize that every person who they don’t understand is of equal value, they won’t be capable of much more.
What really disturbed me about the recent experience: whomever runs their website had to have tweaked SEO to show up at the top of the list like that. Talk about a calculated approach. In their misguided worldview, of course, this is “reaching the lost,” but for a hurting human being assured their existence is an abomination, it is a calculated bait-and-switch, and a lie.