Far too many Christians have the idea it's always okay to break down the barriers between church and state if they do it. They tend to strenuously object should any other faith community attempt to do the same thing. Sandra Day O'Connor said it best when she said in court, “Why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly?” Conservative Christians are very quick to claim they're being persecuted, and the first people who would persecute others if given the opportunity.
A classmate from 50 years back thought that to be unable to act violently to me and others was unfair for him. I often think of him when some religious sect say they are persecuted.
Unfortunately there are some people who think you have the obligation to duck and if you don't, whatever happens is not only your fault, but a crime against the waver.
Gad, my old Tang Soo Do training is coming to the fore! How about instead of ducking, I block and counter (which I've done a LOT, albeit verbally, with the Jehovah's Witnesses who have come to my door over the years)?
Funniest thing: after a couple of visits with that strategy, they quit coming. Why do you suppose that is???
The conservative answer. As long as it serves others, it does not matter how well it has served me. I would rather have a system that serves me poorly and does not serve others at all, that have a system that serves me and others well. What's the point of treading water, if you can't watch others drown.
Some school wants to get funding from the State? They can play by the state's rules, and those rules include provisions that BAN BIGOTRY. If some institute of learning, whether Christian, Jewish, Islamic or Pastafarian, wants to exclude students based on race or sexual orientation, they should be shown the door without apology. Public funds should be used to serve ALL THE PUBLIC and not a select few, dictated by some group with an axe to grind.
Private schools can be bigoted all they want ... but they DON'T get to enjoy public funding as a reward for their bigotry.
We all know that they think that no longer bowing down to their bigotry and requiring them to follow the same rules is persecution. I would bet that the bigots trying to get the antibigotry rule tossed would want that rule followed if the faith statement of the school in question was “Ash-hadu an la ilaha illa Allah, Wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan Rasulu-Allah.”
That's it in a nutshell, and this tale keeps getting repeated. Different venue, same attempt at discrimination and a big pool of public money that comes with conditions. Don't like those conditions? Gawds, STFU and GTFO!
I understand the Christian school's concern. Once I took on online course from North Dakota State Normal and Industrial School, on the impacts of copper mining on the late neolithic community structure, and some other student carelessly had her camera on while sitting at a cafe in Jud. And it just happened that the only agnostic in the entire LaMoure County just happened to stroll past the window in the background. The whole online class was exposed to an agnostic man, who's indifference to God was palpable even on a crappy laptop camera. We all turned agnostic that day. We had no choice. We saw a man with a slightly different philosophical belief system just walking, minding his own business, so we really didn't have a choice. That was patient zero. Soon, everyone who knew or saw someone in that class turned agnostic. And then people who knew people who knew people turned agnostic. Right now, everyone in North Dakota is unsure if it is even possible to know whether or not it is even possible for a god to exist, because of that class. And it's spreading. So of course, the schools have to demand statements of faith. Just imagine it could have been worse. What if a lesbian midget left-handed eskimo albino had walked by?
Wonderful. I love, really love, that kind of storytelling. I tell similar weird stories to my grandkids and the neighbour kid. It is the only way to train them to understand what is truth, what is possible and what is absolutely bollocks (or whatever the English word is).
FFRF has won numerous lawsuits! And after this election, we should be able to take lawsuits to SCOTUS once again. It is WELL PAST time to get an atheist on SCOTUS. There are many non-religious in Congress and this will only grow! Christianity, specifically, has been over privileged in this secular country. That needs to end. The upcoming generations are overwhelmingly non-religious affiliated-good!
There are so many horrific rulings that need to be overturned. Step one though: have to expand scoutus and put in term limits, get rid of a few of these fascists.
But that's exactly what they want. They want to maintain the privileged position they have enjoyed for centuries. They want it so badly that they want to use the power of the state to enforce it. After all, it is only a few short steps from state sanctioned religious beliefs to state mandated religious beliefs. That is their true end goal.
Christian privilege means never having to say you're sorry about being a bigot ... except that school systems around the country are finally waking up to their aberrant behavior and saying NO, more and more often.
I have to wonder, though, if that lesson, even repeated multiple times, will ever sink in.
At the time of the beating, God was a male. Throughout the movie, he was referred to as he (including the Metatron, who surely knew better.) Later, after arriving on the scene to put an end to the destruction, God was a she....sort of. In the words of Rufus (who had called God "he" before): "She's not really a woman. She's not really anything."
So the correct pronoun should ze/zir/zirs/zirself. Or one of the other 30 gender-neutral pronouns. (This is my personal preference, though many use they/them/theirs/themself. I fear the singular they will lead to th’all)
No, Himself. I've seen God naked. His balls hang so low He can tie them in a knot, He can tie them in a bow. He can throw them over his shoulder like a Continental soldier. And His dick....YUGE... with emissions like that of horses. A manly Man for sure.
He's a great storyteller. My girlfriend and were cuddled up, smoking a bowl, watching it when that platypus disclaimer came on the screen, I laughed so hard and knew it was going to be great. Not to mention my other crush in the movie Salma Hayek.
The faculty at both University of Northwestern-St. Paul and Crown College need to reread (or not ignore) their bibles. Their own scripture tells them to obey all earthly laws and authorities and why.
Maybe they thought they could pull a Ham-string. Ken Ham was not originally going to get govt. $$$ to pay for his private park. So he did what any fundie Christian would do. Instead of turning the other cheek like his Jesus said, he kicked and screamed until he got his way. Then he turned right around and discriminated in his hiring policies for that park, which is completely illegal for anyone getting taxpayer dollars. He, too, ignored his bible when it was convenient and disobeyed earthly laws and authorities.
Unfortunately, that verse in the bible about observing all earthly laws gets ignored about as often as Matthew 6:5-6 does. The fact is that some of those who are supposed to represent us and swear an oath, not to their belief system but the Constitution, have violated their oaths so often as to seriously endanger State / Church separation. Worse, the public hasn't called them on their behavior; indeed, many support the erasure of the Establishment Clause.
And the work to rebuild the wall between Church and State grows harder, every day that we don't hold them to account.
The decision to allow religious schools access to taxpayer funded programs was, in my opinion, the mistake. But to further break down the constitutional barrier by allowing the religious schools to discriminate against the folks the constitution is supposed to protect, the student citizens, from those who are acting as government agents, the colleges, is just rubbing salt in the wound.
The colleges might lose this lawsuit, but you know damned well they will appeal as many times as it takes to get in front of a sympathetic judge and/or the SCROTUS. We all know the SCROTUS is more than willing, champing at the bit even, to get a case like this to allow the Christian supremacists power over people they shouldn’t have power over.
So two far right, Christian Nationalists schools, that are not compatible with a free nation, or the US Constitution, are trying to undermine our nation… Nothing new there. These organizations are like parasites, they suck off of society and offer little in return.
If these two colleges accept the State's coin then they must adhere to the State's bidding regarding accepting the coin. If they can't then don't take it. Pretty simple. If MN state schools required student to sign a statement saying they accepted woke ideology and culture religions, and the secular public, would object and rightly so.
The bigots at these two kkkonservative kkkhristian kkkolleges demand respect for their beliefs yet want to openly disrespect others that do not share their hatreds. Thus was it ever with them.
To cristers: You have to give it to get it. Respect isn't a one-way street.
Remember my post a few days ago, about the 'christian club' at a San Francisco college? The club that lost access to school facilities because they were not inclusive to gay students?
This. It's the same damn story all over again. They want their cake and to eat it too. And if they don't get their way, they whine about "persecution," even though their religion isn't singled out. Just their assholery in excluding certain students is being singled out.
Getting kinda tired of their whining. And I love that one of the Representatives is named after the Greek goddess of wisdom, Athena.
There's no way religious discrimination should be allowed in this country, the vile christianists can just go pound bibles!
Yes, and just a few days ago, there was the case of the Maine schools which wanted to discriminate (while still getting some of that sweet, sweet state voucher money), *for exactly the same reason.* Are they going to re-litigate the case about Bob Jones "university"? The one where the college was getting federal funds and continued to discriminate against Black students? The one that caused a bunch of religious bigots to found seg-academies? The supremes back in the day put the nope on that. Given the penchant of today's supreme court for overturning precedent, it's likely that's on their mental chopping block as well.
Interesting thing is, they're no longer a majority in the United States. They're not even a plurality. WE ARE, and Hemant pointed that out only a couple days ago. The shame is that they will likely never notice or admit that our treatment of them is far more evenhanded than their treatment of us.
I understand an organization having a statement of beliefs/faith/creed. It’s akin to a political party having a platform. It says “this is us”. Fine and dandy.
But insisting that people say they agree with all of it is just authoritarian BS. And it invites people to be dishonest. Which is the prudent way to be when suffering under authoritarianism.
A political party in Norway at least, discuss that platform regularly and change it if they find better ways to reach their goals. Nobody in my party agree 100 % with everything.
I suspect that many of the people on Fox are paid an excessive amount of money to appear stupid. Just so their viewers don't think that they are pointy headed intellectuals.
Far too many Christians have the idea it's always okay to break down the barriers between church and state if they do it. They tend to strenuously object should any other faith community attempt to do the same thing. Sandra Day O'Connor said it best when she said in court, “Why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly?” Conservative Christians are very quick to claim they're being persecuted, and the first people who would persecute others if given the opportunity.
If fact, many of them feel that, if they are not allowed to persecute others, that is persecution!
There’s no hate like Christian love.
A classmate from 50 years back thought that to be unable to act violently to me and others was unfair for him. I often think of him when some religious sect say they are persecuted.
This is where the idea MUST be reinforced that, to use the old saying, "Your right to wave your beliefs about ENDS AT MY NOSE!"
That message needs to be repeated until it sinks in.
Unfortunately there are some people who think you have the obligation to duck and if you don't, whatever happens is not only your fault, but a crime against the waver.
Gad, my old Tang Soo Do training is coming to the fore! How about instead of ducking, I block and counter (which I've done a LOT, albeit verbally, with the Jehovah's Witnesses who have come to my door over the years)?
Funniest thing: after a couple of visits with that strategy, they quit coming. Why do you suppose that is???
When JWs came to my door, I told them that I was an atheist. They went away without saying another word.
Strong with the Force, I guess.
Exactly!
They have this baked-in sense of Christian privilege that allows them to think that way.
It seems to me that their faith/religion isn’t strong enough to cope with anything that challenges their beliefs.
Hence, their desire to silence anyone who speaks out against them.
It ķind of isn't strange. They really believe that them, and only them, have understood the real truth of the world and universe.
The conservative answer. As long as it serves others, it does not matter how well it has served me. I would rather have a system that serves me poorly and does not serve others at all, that have a system that serves me and others well. What's the point of treading water, if you can't watch others drown.
Some school wants to get funding from the State? They can play by the state's rules, and those rules include provisions that BAN BIGOTRY. If some institute of learning, whether Christian, Jewish, Islamic or Pastafarian, wants to exclude students based on race or sexual orientation, they should be shown the door without apology. Public funds should be used to serve ALL THE PUBLIC and not a select few, dictated by some group with an axe to grind.
Private schools can be bigoted all they want ... but they DON'T get to enjoy public funding as a reward for their bigotry.
We all know that they think that no longer bowing down to their bigotry and requiring them to follow the same rules is persecution. I would bet that the bigots trying to get the antibigotry rule tossed would want that rule followed if the faith statement of the school in question was “Ash-hadu an la ilaha illa Allah, Wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan Rasulu-Allah.”
That's it in a nutshell, and this tale keeps getting repeated. Different venue, same attempt at discrimination and a big pool of public money that comes with conditions. Don't like those conditions? Gawds, STFU and GTFO!
I understand the Christian school's concern. Once I took on online course from North Dakota State Normal and Industrial School, on the impacts of copper mining on the late neolithic community structure, and some other student carelessly had her camera on while sitting at a cafe in Jud. And it just happened that the only agnostic in the entire LaMoure County just happened to stroll past the window in the background. The whole online class was exposed to an agnostic man, who's indifference to God was palpable even on a crappy laptop camera. We all turned agnostic that day. We had no choice. We saw a man with a slightly different philosophical belief system just walking, minding his own business, so we really didn't have a choice. That was patient zero. Soon, everyone who knew or saw someone in that class turned agnostic. And then people who knew people who knew people turned agnostic. Right now, everyone in North Dakota is unsure if it is even possible to know whether or not it is even possible for a god to exist, because of that class. And it's spreading. So of course, the schools have to demand statements of faith. Just imagine it could have been worse. What if a lesbian midget left-handed eskimo albino had walked by?
Wonderful. I love, really love, that kind of storytelling. I tell similar weird stories to my grandkids and the neighbour kid. It is the only way to train them to understand what is truth, what is possible and what is absolutely bollocks (or whatever the English word is).
Bollocks* works. Bull or bullshit too.
*Supernatural, either Crowley or Bobby Singer, not sure which one.
Gold!!
FFRF has won numerous lawsuits! And after this election, we should be able to take lawsuits to SCOTUS once again. It is WELL PAST time to get an atheist on SCOTUS. There are many non-religious in Congress and this will only grow! Christianity, specifically, has been over privileged in this secular country. That needs to end. The upcoming generations are overwhelmingly non-religious affiliated-good!
There are so many horrific rulings that need to be overturned. Step one though: have to expand scoutus and put in term limits, get rid of a few of these fascists.
𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛 𝑠𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑙𝑠 𝑐𝑎𝑛’𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑖𝑡 𝑏𝑜𝑡ℎ 𝑤𝑎𝑦𝑠. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑎𝑔𝑟𝑒𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒’𝑠 𝑟𝑢𝑙𝑒𝑠 𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑠𝑒 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑡𝑜 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑖𝑝𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑔𝑟𝑎𝑚. 𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒’𝑠 𝑛𝑜 𝐽𝑒𝑠𝑢𝑠 𝐸𝑥𝑐𝑒𝑝𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑖𝑛 𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑤 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑏𝑖𝑔𝑜𝑡𝑠 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑤𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑎𝑐𝑐𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑡𝑎𝑥𝑝𝑎𝑦𝑒𝑟 𝑑𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑎𝑟𝑠.
But that's exactly what they want. They want to maintain the privileged position they have enjoyed for centuries. They want it so badly that they want to use the power of the state to enforce it. After all, it is only a few short steps from state sanctioned religious beliefs to state mandated religious beliefs. That is their true end goal.
Christian privilege means never having to say you're sorry about being a bigot ... except that school systems around the country are finally waking up to their aberrant behavior and saying NO, more and more often.
I have to wonder, though, if that lesson, even repeated multiple times, will ever sink in.
They need to climb out of the deep pit of indoctrination before they can learn any lessons. It is possible for some of them, but unlikely for most.
It probably will not sink in. After all, they believe in something there are not proven in any way at all.
I think they realize that only the power of the state can save them… left to their own devices, they will continue to wither.
Heh. "The power of Christ compels them..."
Yeah, where's your Messiah now? (Playing Skee Ball at an arcade, iirc)
At least until 3 hockey stick-wielding demons pummeled him on a pier at Asbury Park, which put him on life support at St. Michael’s Hospital nearby.
(TBF, that wasn’t Jesus. It was God himself)
Heh. I know, but She didn't fit my narrative!
Herself. Or probably more accurately zirself. Never did understand why a supreme being needed a gender.
At the time of the beating, God was a male. Throughout the movie, he was referred to as he (including the Metatron, who surely knew better.) Later, after arriving on the scene to put an end to the destruction, God was a she....sort of. In the words of Rufus (who had called God "he" before): "She's not really a woman. She's not really anything."
So the correct pronoun should ze/zir/zirs/zirself. Or one of the other 30 gender-neutral pronouns. (This is my personal preference, though many use they/them/theirs/themself. I fear the singular they will lead to th’all)
Alanis Morrisette rocked as god.
No, Himself. I've seen God naked. His balls hang so low He can tie them in a knot, He can tie them in a bow. He can throw them over his shoulder like a Continental soldier. And His dick....YUGE... with emissions like that of horses. A manly Man for sure.
My favorite movie!
Kevin's best.
He's a great storyteller. My girlfriend and were cuddled up, smoking a bowl, watching it when that platypus disclaimer came on the screen, I laughed so hard and knew it was going to be great. Not to mention my other crush in the movie Salma Hayek.
The faculty at both University of Northwestern-St. Paul and Crown College need to reread (or not ignore) their bibles. Their own scripture tells them to obey all earthly laws and authorities and why.
Maybe they thought they could pull a Ham-string. Ken Ham was not originally going to get govt. $$$ to pay for his private park. So he did what any fundie Christian would do. Instead of turning the other cheek like his Jesus said, he kicked and screamed until he got his way. Then he turned right around and discriminated in his hiring policies for that park, which is completely illegal for anyone getting taxpayer dollars. He, too, ignored his bible when it was convenient and disobeyed earthly laws and authorities.
Unfortunately, that verse in the bible about observing all earthly laws gets ignored about as often as Matthew 6:5-6 does. The fact is that some of those who are supposed to represent us and swear an oath, not to their belief system but the Constitution, have violated their oaths so often as to seriously endanger State / Church separation. Worse, the public hasn't called them on their behavior; indeed, many support the erasure of the Establishment Clause.
And the work to rebuild the wall between Church and State grows harder, every day that we don't hold them to account.
The decision to allow religious schools access to taxpayer funded programs was, in my opinion, the mistake. But to further break down the constitutional barrier by allowing the religious schools to discriminate against the folks the constitution is supposed to protect, the student citizens, from those who are acting as government agents, the colleges, is just rubbing salt in the wound.
The colleges might lose this lawsuit, but you know damned well they will appeal as many times as it takes to get in front of a sympathetic judge and/or the SCROTUS. We all know the SCROTUS is more than willing, champing at the bit even, to get a case like this to allow the Christian supremacists power over people they shouldn’t have power over.
So two far right, Christian Nationalists schools, that are not compatible with a free nation, or the US Constitution, are trying to undermine our nation… Nothing new there. These organizations are like parasites, they suck off of society and offer little in return.
They offer much. Hatred, damnation, persecution, resistance, misogyny, homophobia, racism and much much more. Thy are the neanderthals of mankind.
If these two colleges accept the State's coin then they must adhere to the State's bidding regarding accepting the coin. If they can't then don't take it. Pretty simple. If MN state schools required student to sign a statement saying they accepted woke ideology and culture religions, and the secular public, would object and rightly so.
The bigots at these two kkkonservative kkkhristian kkkolleges demand respect for their beliefs yet want to openly disrespect others that do not share their hatreds. Thus was it ever with them.
To cristers: You have to give it to get it. Respect isn't a one-way street.
Goes for Gays also.
https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/459907172_1760697991383222_4309796635357208568_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=NuDt6dIuyTgQ7kNvgHHz211&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-2.xx&_nc_gid=AzRPsbi0HqizA3HR5vg_W4B&oh=00_AYAalaFcAeL-SyB8EXcdwTBRuSaRkLmaIRDn9XBhrzmNxg&oe=66EE2D3B
Remember my post a few days ago, about the 'christian club' at a San Francisco college? The club that lost access to school facilities because they were not inclusive to gay students?
This. It's the same damn story all over again. They want their cake and to eat it too. And if they don't get their way, they whine about "persecution," even though their religion isn't singled out. Just their assholery in excluding certain students is being singled out.
Getting kinda tired of their whining. And I love that one of the Representatives is named after the Greek goddess of wisdom, Athena.
There's no way religious discrimination should be allowed in this country, the vile christianists can just go pound bibles!
Yes, and just a few days ago, there was the case of the Maine schools which wanted to discriminate (while still getting some of that sweet, sweet state voucher money), *for exactly the same reason.* Are they going to re-litigate the case about Bob Jones "university"? The one where the college was getting federal funds and continued to discriminate against Black students? The one that caused a bunch of religious bigots to found seg-academies? The supremes back in the day put the nope on that. Given the penchant of today's supreme court for overturning precedent, it's likely that's on their mental chopping block as well.
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/460344017_1760703238049364_3985660115346437951_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=8Bb9ZMUoCAcQ7kNvgGFHXHp&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=00_AYDWyntRZmlrTwfgpJ2i_xkaLgNZ3_95m7LGIAo6D29kmQ&oe=66EE3986
Interesting thing is, they're no longer a majority in the United States. They're not even a plurality. WE ARE, and Hemant pointed that out only a couple days ago. The shame is that they will likely never notice or admit that our treatment of them is far more evenhanded than their treatment of us.
Bibles make good kindling when camping
Hubble vs Webb.
https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/459351010_1556649291591575_903705953867284518_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=bv4KW3OoevMQ7kNvgH46E1U&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-2.xx&_nc_gid=ALm3SifAbeZjO6tJ8GkAqRj&oh=00_AYDjGwXZpJUuG1RJOVGSyLstlzKqWJF0T52m79jfj_pyuw&oe=66EE3E2F
Both good, one better.
Praise be science 🔬🔭 and technology ⚙
It's so simple, if you exclude, you are excluded. It only seems paradoxical if you believe in invisible beings.
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/459890976_1760990838020604_382210648817882918_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=MaxmWYCF2aoQ7kNvgFUaYsX&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&_nc_gid=A4F_AzRkK6YARzhpAouu3-q&oh=00_AYAqFLIVapg-7TG4hn3tiwsjZWNmKHQgTUQo81u7ew0LfA&oe=66EEA46A
Or if witches/Wiccans had a "holy" book that stated "Thou shalt not suffer a Christian to live."
Or if teenagers had a book that demanded patricide/matricide of controlling asshole parents.
I understand an organization having a statement of beliefs/faith/creed. It’s akin to a political party having a platform. It says “this is us”. Fine and dandy.
But insisting that people say they agree with all of it is just authoritarian BS. And it invites people to be dishonest. Which is the prudent way to be when suffering under authoritarianism.
A political party in Norway at least, discuss that platform regularly and change it if they find better ways to reach their goals. Nobody in my party agree 100 % with everything.
Cleese on fox...
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/459809117_10161627700878482_1656569552070958889_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=_W5lnNkyG3gQ7kNvgH3QIi4&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&_nc_gid=AoemuLdF1jOLlIM1Xb6PGq_&oh=00_AYBptZwLPQAAj9TTOGHldeUPmuhIGq3j_6MaLlklrnNZpQ&oe=66EE872B
I suspect that many of the people on Fox are paid an excessive amount of money to appear stupid. Just so their viewers don't think that they are pointy headed intellectuals.