I come from a family with lots of atheists. Would that my Mother had been one of them. But, i had lots of support from my Grandparents who were all non-believers. I learned early on not to talk about my religious views outside the family. When I announced when I was 10 that I was an atheist, my Mother a liberal Methodist, ran out and bought me a KJ Bible... I was a precocious 10 year old and dutifully read every word... As I like to quote 'Believing the Bible makes you a Christian. Understanding the Bible makes you an atheist.'
"Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." Isaac Asimov
Atheists know so much more about the bible than Christians because we've read it. It's frustrating to read because it contradicts itself. I found the parables just stupid. As Julia Sweeney said in Letting Go of God, "I kept thinking, "Don't teach in parables then. Its not working! Even your staff doesn't understand them."
I do not find any of this surprising. The sense of Christian privilege and entitlement is deeply entrenched in this country. I suspect this manager likes the authoritarianism of the institutional church far more than anything Jesus supposedly taught. His behavior also speaks directly to just how weak their arguments really are that he can be so easily threatened by anyone who chooses not to march obediently along behind his particular drummer.
Once again, we have a Christian (and in this case, a Christian in a particular authority position) who decides to dump on an atheist for no other reason than that HE IS AN ATHEIST.
The judge overseeing the civil case should land on Delgado with both feet.
I'm not so certain. Hemant's article doesn't mention any assisting organizations, but if Austin were to solicit support from Americans United or the Freedom From Religion Foundation, I have little doubt but that either or both of them would come to his aid.
It wouldn't be their first rodeo ... or their second or their third, and they have plenty of notches in their "W" column.
Here in the U.S. it has more to do with commercialism (Christmas Sales, After Christmas sales, etc.) than with anything spiritual. You'll be so happy if your spouse surprises you with a new Lexus. Uh-huh.
First, people should always be aware that there's no such thing as a 'social event' when it involves a company-planned anything or when it involves only co-workers. That's a work event. Anything you say or do can and will be used in evaluating your job performance. Second, never divulge too much personal information to co-workers - and that includes your political affiliation, religion, relationships, etc. Keep all of that to yourself. A good rule of thumb is to keep your personal life private and separate from your work life.
It would be illegal for a company to retaliate against an employee on the basis of religion, but 'not meeting work requirements' covers A LOT of ground.
I used to have a job where one of my colleagues was Hindu. We were in the break room alone eating lunch and I asked it it would be okay if I asked her about Hinduism. She became visibly uncomfortable. I clarified as quickly as I could that I wasn’t trying to proselytize, that I’m atheist, that I like learning about religions, and that I had found Hinduism even more confusing than Christianity as Hindus seemed to have very disparate beliefs. She cracked up at the line about Christianity being confusing. Long story short, she and I had many convos about Hinduism but only when it was just the two of us.
I think it can be okay to talk about religion at work. It’s how it is done. And I still find Hinduism more confusing than Christianity.
I should have included that we were in different lines of the business and there was zero chance either of us would ever supervise the other.
Also, she was fascinated that I had been raised in a theologically conservative Christian denomination, became atheist, married a Jewish woman, and actively participated in raising our sons in the Jewish religion.
This is awesome! As someone who grew up in a reformed Jewish household, discussions and questioning of religion were always welcome, especially of the Torah itself. My parents used the writings to teach me to think critically, rather than follow teachings blindly, which is why I ultimately realized I was an Atheist once I was old enough to reach my own conclusions. I’m just glad I never had the fear of hellfire pushed upon me as a child. I can’t even begin to imagine what that is like. Thank you for sharing your story!
My bride was raised Conservative. When we were thinking about starting a family, she encouraged me to meet with the rabbi of our (her) synagogue so I could ask him the questions she had trouble answering.* He and I eventually had weekly meetings for about 18 months during which we discussed the Torah and I peppered him with questions. I neglected to mentioned earlier that not only was I raised in a theologically conservative Christian denomination, my father was the minister. So the rabbi asked me a lot of questions about how being the child of the religious leader affected my sibs and me so he could be an attentive father.
*Years later my bride told me that my questions to her nearly made her atheist. I describe her now as a Jewish Deist, if that makes any sense. She believes in a god but not a god that cares about any individual. And our sons became atheist before their bar mitzvahs. So I was the big winner — without even trying.
This made me laugh :) I am glad that it worked out for you with your kids. I probably have a bias growing up in a reformed Jewish household, but I feel that Judaism is far more open to discussion/criticism than Christianity (of course there are always exceptions). I understand the Jewish Deist approach, as this was how my mom initially tried to except the teachings while unable to accept god as someone with human intentions, who would still allow all the terrible things in the world to happen. The problem of evil is a hard pill to swallow when you are an empathetic person.
The most important lesson I learned was that once you have hurt someone else, asking for forgiveness is usually never enough, as the damage has already been done. The most you can do is say you are sorry, attempt to repair the broken trust, and learn not to repeat your past mistakes. Even then, it is up to the victim whether to accept or reject your apology. That has stuck with me the most. Of course, I am sure that humanism can fill that gap without the invisible man in the sky part.
Again, thank you for being so open about your experiences. I always love to hear about other people's lives, and it has been a joy to converse with you.
She said/he said/he said. While we don’t have all the facts in evidence, I’m inclined to believe Mr. Ray because we all know that poor persecuted Christians (spoiler alert: they’re usually the ones doing the persecuting) have an axe to grind about every fucking thing under the sun.
If it turns out that he was fired for religious reasons (or lack of religion, in Ray's case), then xtians need to be reminded...especially in court...that they do not own the holiday season. Or an any other part of the calendar, for that matter.
As has been repeatedly demonstrated, Christian belief plagiarized earlier myths and traditions.
In News From the Bible Belt: There's been a campaign going on among christian churches for people to put these yellow 'Thank You, Jesus' signs on their front lawns. Well..... you'll never guess what happened...... The guy behind the whole thing is a 25-year-old from Asheboro, NC, and he just got arrested this week after a month-long investigation. AND you'll never guess what he was arrested for...... possession of child pornography. IKR? Shocking!
“ Connie Frazier, president of the Thank You Jesus mission, released a statement, saying, "We will not be commenting on the charges, but we can say that Lucas Hunt, through the Thank You Jesus signs, has helped thousands of people and has been a blessing."”
Yeah, "except for that little thing involving child porn, he's a swell guy." THIS is what religion does to people's brains and characters. It's disgusting.
Religion rots the brain, makes people extremely stupid and extremely gullible (I know that is redundant, but if any rednecks actually come a read this blog you would have to clearly spell it out for them).
TYJ via Connie Frazier is STILL defending this (alleged) pedo creep, calling him a blessing DESPITE the arrest/investigation.
When David Silverman messed up due to financial and sexual misconduct, he was rightly kicked to the curb by American Atheists. But it's atheists who are considered immoral by the pious. Why is it we never see atheists making headlines due to child diddling? Nope, it's always the morality merchants.
You can believe in god and still hate christmas shopping, christmas music, christmas movies, christmas dinners, and other christmas horrors. Every winter I wish I could hibernate until the month December is over.
I have a long habit of avoiding various office social events for many reasons. I don't usually want to deal with my coworkers any more than I have to, and quite frankly, it's easy to wind up saying or doing something someone will object to at that kind of shindig. I've had coworkers that love them, and some businesses seem to like having them, but I don't like them and will avoid them given the chance.
Not knowing so much of the circumstances here, I'm a bit reluctant to make too much commentary, but I would make one observation: If someone is badgering you that much about your religious faith, odds are they're up to something. Social interrogations can be difficult to manage in some cases, and this sounds like one such occasion. Mr. Ray has a hard fight in front of him, but if his allegations are true, we can only hope he wins his case. Good luck to him.
We used to socialise after work every Friday. In an effort to forget the week I suspect for some. No one ever talked about religion if I remember correctly, except perhaps for taking the piss out of it. In spite of the fact that we had an Irish Protestant and an Irish Catholic on the staff. But then it wasn't America.
I come from a family with lots of atheists. Would that my Mother had been one of them. But, i had lots of support from my Grandparents who were all non-believers. I learned early on not to talk about my religious views outside the family. When I announced when I was 10 that I was an atheist, my Mother a liberal Methodist, ran out and bought me a KJ Bible... I was a precocious 10 year old and dutifully read every word... As I like to quote 'Believing the Bible makes you a Christian. Understanding the Bible makes you an atheist.'
Excellent quote.
"Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." Isaac Asimov
Atheists know so much more about the bible than Christians because we've read it. It's frustrating to read because it contradicts itself. I found the parables just stupid. As Julia Sweeney said in Letting Go of God, "I kept thinking, "Don't teach in parables then. Its not working! Even your staff doesn't understand them."
The christian co-workers will lie. The christian judge and christian jury members will believe them.
👆👆👆🎯
I do not find any of this surprising. The sense of Christian privilege and entitlement is deeply entrenched in this country. I suspect this manager likes the authoritarianism of the institutional church far more than anything Jesus supposedly taught. His behavior also speaks directly to just how weak their arguments really are that he can be so easily threatened by anyone who chooses not to march obediently along behind his particular drummer.
Once again, we have a Christian (and in this case, a Christian in a particular authority position) who decides to dump on an atheist for no other reason than that HE IS AN ATHEIST.
The judge overseeing the civil case should land on Delgado with both feet.
But he won’t.
I'm not so certain. Hemant's article doesn't mention any assisting organizations, but if Austin were to solicit support from Americans United or the Freedom From Religion Foundation, I have little doubt but that either or both of them would come to his aid.
It wouldn't be their first rodeo ... or their second or their third, and they have plenty of notches in their "W" column.
Either group would be an obvious first call for me.
Heck, the ACLU used to take cases like this all the time.
On occasion, they still do, and I've known them to team with FFRF and/or Americans United here and there.
Good to know, Troublesh00ter.
En gros, we don't know much, yet. If it happened, it will be very difficult to prove without a video or audio record.
Non christian celebrating a secular Christmas is common here. I suppose it the same in the US.
Yep. It's a very secular season in the states, and Santa gets as much if not more exposure than Jesus.
Definitely more Santa, in my experience. Could be different in the religious rural areas.
Here in the U.S. it has more to do with commercialism (Christmas Sales, After Christmas sales, etc.) than with anything spiritual. You'll be so happy if your spouse surprises you with a new Lexus. Uh-huh.
I'd be far more surprised by the presence of a spouse.
𝑻𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝒊𝒔 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒎𝒚 𝒃𝒆𝒂𝒖𝒕𝒊𝒇𝒖𝒍 𝒉𝒐𝒖𝒔𝒆, 𝒕𝒉𝒊𝒔 𝒊𝒔 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒎𝒚 𝒃𝒆𝒂𝒖𝒕𝒊𝒇𝒖𝒍 𝒘𝒊𝒇𝒆!
First, people should always be aware that there's no such thing as a 'social event' when it involves a company-planned anything or when it involves only co-workers. That's a work event. Anything you say or do can and will be used in evaluating your job performance. Second, never divulge too much personal information to co-workers - and that includes your political affiliation, religion, relationships, etc. Keep all of that to yourself. A good rule of thumb is to keep your personal life private and separate from your work life.
It would be illegal for a company to retaliate against an employee on the basis of religion, but 'not meeting work requirements' covers A LOT of ground.
Great advice for work or prison.
Same things? ;)
I used to have a job where one of my colleagues was Hindu. We were in the break room alone eating lunch and I asked it it would be okay if I asked her about Hinduism. She became visibly uncomfortable. I clarified as quickly as I could that I wasn’t trying to proselytize, that I’m atheist, that I like learning about religions, and that I had found Hinduism even more confusing than Christianity as Hindus seemed to have very disparate beliefs. She cracked up at the line about Christianity being confusing. Long story short, she and I had many convos about Hinduism but only when it was just the two of us.
I think it can be okay to talk about religion at work. It’s how it is done. And I still find Hinduism more confusing than Christianity.
If only more people were able to have civil conversations like this.
I should have included that we were in different lines of the business and there was zero chance either of us would ever supervise the other.
Also, she was fascinated that I had been raised in a theologically conservative Christian denomination, became atheist, married a Jewish woman, and actively participated in raising our sons in the Jewish religion.
This is awesome! As someone who grew up in a reformed Jewish household, discussions and questioning of religion were always welcome, especially of the Torah itself. My parents used the writings to teach me to think critically, rather than follow teachings blindly, which is why I ultimately realized I was an Atheist once I was old enough to reach my own conclusions. I’m just glad I never had the fear of hellfire pushed upon me as a child. I can’t even begin to imagine what that is like. Thank you for sharing your story!
My bride was raised Conservative. When we were thinking about starting a family, she encouraged me to meet with the rabbi of our (her) synagogue so I could ask him the questions she had trouble answering.* He and I eventually had weekly meetings for about 18 months during which we discussed the Torah and I peppered him with questions. I neglected to mentioned earlier that not only was I raised in a theologically conservative Christian denomination, my father was the minister. So the rabbi asked me a lot of questions about how being the child of the religious leader affected my sibs and me so he could be an attentive father.
*Years later my bride told me that my questions to her nearly made her atheist. I describe her now as a Jewish Deist, if that makes any sense. She believes in a god but not a god that cares about any individual. And our sons became atheist before their bar mitzvahs. So I was the big winner — without even trying.
This made me laugh :) I am glad that it worked out for you with your kids. I probably have a bias growing up in a reformed Jewish household, but I feel that Judaism is far more open to discussion/criticism than Christianity (of course there are always exceptions). I understand the Jewish Deist approach, as this was how my mom initially tried to except the teachings while unable to accept god as someone with human intentions, who would still allow all the terrible things in the world to happen. The problem of evil is a hard pill to swallow when you are an empathetic person.
The most important lesson I learned was that once you have hurt someone else, asking for forgiveness is usually never enough, as the damage has already been done. The most you can do is say you are sorry, attempt to repair the broken trust, and learn not to repeat your past mistakes. Even then, it is up to the victim whether to accept or reject your apology. That has stuck with me the most. Of course, I am sure that humanism can fill that gap without the invisible man in the sky part.
Again, thank you for being so open about your experiences. I always love to hear about other people's lives, and it has been a joy to converse with you.
She said/he said/he said. While we don’t have all the facts in evidence, I’m inclined to believe Mr. Ray because we all know that poor persecuted Christians (spoiler alert: they’re usually the ones doing the persecuting) have an axe to grind about every fucking thing under the sun.
No grinding axes, that's a stonin'.
If it turns out that he was fired for religious reasons (or lack of religion, in Ray's case), then xtians need to be reminded...especially in court...that they do not own the holiday season. Or an any other part of the calendar, for that matter.
As has been repeatedly demonstrated, Christian belief plagiarized earlier myths and traditions.
When I'm asked if I believe in god, my response is, "Which one?" That usually takes them aback.
That's my immediate go-to as well.
I believe in one less god than you.
Eta: My response to christians. Won't work for multi god religions.
Then again if you get asked "Do you believe in God," the odds are it's not a Hindu asking the question. ;)
By Shiva, you're right.
I’m Thorly certain you are correct.
Atlas, somebody agrees with me.
DELGADO: "Why do people hate Christians so?"
*rolls eyes*
Ummm, Mr. Delgado, do da phrase, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" strike a familiar note?
Or, better yet, "That which you would not have done unto you, do not do to another."
As Benjamin Franklin noted: Christians, in their turns, have either been persecutors or complainers of persecution.
Even better yet, "Treat others the way they want to be treated."
In News From the Bible Belt: There's been a campaign going on among christian churches for people to put these yellow 'Thank You, Jesus' signs on their front lawns. Well..... you'll never guess what happened...... The guy behind the whole thing is a 25-year-old from Asheboro, NC, and he just got arrested this week after a month-long investigation. AND you'll never guess what he was arrested for...... possession of child pornography. IKR? Shocking!
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/crime/thank-you-jesus-creator-charged-sexual-exploitation-of-a-minor-latest/83-49505d86-d7ff-4bbe-b36a-30e803e42017
“ Connie Frazier, president of the Thank You Jesus mission, released a statement, saying, "We will not be commenting on the charges, but we can say that Lucas Hunt, through the Thank You Jesus signs, has helped thousands of people and has been a blessing."”
Despicable.
NOGODZ picked up on that before me.
Yeah, "except for that little thing involving child porn, he's a swell guy." THIS is what religion does to people's brains and characters. It's disgusting.
Religion rots the brain, makes people extremely stupid and extremely gullible (I know that is redundant, but if any rednecks actually come a read this blog you would have to clearly spell it out for them).
Thank you Jesus for getting him arrested.
Someone needs to make a sarcastic "Thanks, Jesus" sign.
I thought he might have got busted for printing Jesus signs, but I should have known better.
Copyright/Trademark infringement.
Not when you're living on the buckle of the Bible Belt.
Mandatory
imgur.com/gallery/AdKZM6Y
TYJ via Connie Frazier is STILL defending this (alleged) pedo creep, calling him a blessing DESPITE the arrest/investigation.
When David Silverman messed up due to financial and sexual misconduct, he was rightly kicked to the curb by American Atheists. But it's atheists who are considered immoral by the pious. Why is it we never see atheists making headlines due to child diddling? Nope, it's always the morality merchants.
Religion is a freaking brain worm, ain't it?
Don't tell RFK, Jr. He'll want it.
Send that to Evan Hurst from the moral high ground and/or Wonkette, he’s keeping a running tally.
I believe him. I got fired for vague reasons after I "came out" as Atheist by writing a Letter to the Editor questioning Christian privilege.
You can believe in god and still hate christmas shopping, christmas music, christmas movies, christmas dinners, and other christmas horrors. Every winter I wish I could hibernate until the month December is over.
I have a long habit of avoiding various office social events for many reasons. I don't usually want to deal with my coworkers any more than I have to, and quite frankly, it's easy to wind up saying or doing something someone will object to at that kind of shindig. I've had coworkers that love them, and some businesses seem to like having them, but I don't like them and will avoid them given the chance.
Not knowing so much of the circumstances here, I'm a bit reluctant to make too much commentary, but I would make one observation: If someone is badgering you that much about your religious faith, odds are they're up to something. Social interrogations can be difficult to manage in some cases, and this sounds like one such occasion. Mr. Ray has a hard fight in front of him, but if his allegations are true, we can only hope he wins his case. Good luck to him.
We used to socialise after work every Friday. In an effort to forget the week I suspect for some. No one ever talked about religion if I remember correctly, except perhaps for taking the piss out of it. In spite of the fact that we had an Irish Protestant and an Irish Catholic on the staff. But then it wasn't America.
Two things it's best to avoid talking about at work: religion and politics.
I've usually heard that #3 is sex. Fortunately, I live in Wisconsin, where there's always some interesting form of weather. Plus the Packers!