The Ark Encounter stands as a monument to ignorance. That so many people would pay to visit this place is a stark reminder of what intelligent and educated people are up against. This place does not fill me with hope for the future of our species.
So I got bored. I went and checked the Wikipedia page for Walt Disney World, and looked at the attendance records for various years. (Note these do have references listed.) I then took the April attendance numbers for the Ark park and multiplied by 12 to get a theoretical number for this year's attendance. As a round figure, 71000*12=852000; then I figured I'd keep going because why not at that point? Assuming that all of the above attendance is for adults only, I multiplied by 110, which is what a 3 day 'bouncer' pass costs (https://arkencounter.com/tickets/) and got $93,720,000. I must admit my brain kinda froze up for a moment there.
What I learned from all this is that the Ark Encounter is really apparently designed to separate gullible Christians from their money. It may never be on Disney's scale, but I doubt Ham cares; he's undoubtedly laughing all the way to the bank.
"According to the all-powerful Google, Walt Disney World’s absolute maximum capacity is 320,000 people. Holy cow. EPCOT’s approximate capacity is 110,000 people, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom are both estimated to be around 60,000 people, and the smaller parks. Magic Kingdom, is estimated to have a maximum capacity of 100,000 people."
In three days Disney can surpass the Arks best yearly total. Apples and oranges, but not even oranges. : )
Good comparison. I've always thought they are charging amusement park prices for a road side attraction. I suppose it is actually a hybrid of that, 2-3 hours would be about how long you stay at the Ark, Disney park it would be 8-10 hours. Something like "Carhenge" or the world's largest ball of twine, maybe 1 full hour
That the American public is still paying $$$ to attend Ham's masturbation fantasy only validates what PT Barnum had to say about such flubdubbery:
"The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it."
--Phineas Taylor Barnum, from his book "The Humbugs of the World: An Account of Humbugs, Delusions, Impositions, Quackeries, Deceits and Deceivers Generally, in All Ages." (1865)
I will admit to admiring the likes of Aron Ra and Seth Andrews, both of whom have taken the bullet for us and gone through that mess, reporting on it as they did so. My thanks to them for that. For myself, there isn't enough money in the world to get me to endure that travesty.
I still want to see Ken Ham rendered to the harshest form of bankruptcy available to our financial system. He deserves nothing less.
There was actually a TV advertisement about Ham's Hallucination on the Food Network the other day. I managed NOT to do a spit-take with my 12-year-old Tamnavulin, while watching giraffes and llamas make vapid comments about the park.
I suppose I can consider Ron Reagan's regular appearances on MSNBC (and occasionally CBS!!!) as compensatory, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd rather not see Ham's crap at all!
CBS? I've long had the impression that network skewed to an older demographic. (Of course, I watch a lot of 'crime procedurals' on CBS, so maybe I'm biased)
With on-air "talent" like Norah O'Donnell (who still keeps referring to "President Trump" and Fox News hack Major Garrett, they're clearly trying to attract the Fox crowd. That loud whirring sound I keep hearing must be Ed Murrow and Walter Kronkite spinning in their graves.
CBS has aired Ron Reagan's "Not afraid of burning in hell" ad at least a couple times during 60 Minutes. Some time back, they were resistant to giving him and the FFRF air time, but apparently, times have changed.
It's horrific, and we're going to see more of it. Abortion bans just are not the 'save the babies!' instruments they are all too often billed as; and quite honestly I blame the complete lack of education about pregnancy for the number of people who think they are. There will be some very difficult years ahead for those who get pregnant or want children in the near future.
Some days, I really do wonder if humanity is a lost cause.
I think I read an article about this – the doctors in Kentucky could have legally operated, but the too scared in case they were prosecuted. This doesn't bode well for Kentucky's ability to attract doctors does it? Probably why their 48th in life expectancy. Way behind Hawaii, California, and Guam. Do they know? Do they care?
OT: Even on a Saturday, when we aren't likely to get another article, it appears most readers bypass yet another Ark Encounter story. Hemant must have money on when this place collapses. At least, that's the only reason I can think of, for this obsession.
Well, it's maintenance weekend, so I have to go into work soon, but it'll be mostly waiting, so I'll probably check in, though I plan to take the Kindle.
The mythical Noah and his family repopulated the world with the very kind of people YHVH flooded the globe to be rid of. The flood was a complete waste of effort.
It was also totally unnecessary, with an all-powerful powerful god who could've simply winked all the "bad people" out of existence with a snap of his fingers, ala Thanos.
And if it had...nothing would have changed because it's all a fantasy...a delusional fantasy that has long outlived its usefulness to quell the fears and ignorance of the masses.
That makes perfect sense, doesn't it? It IS supposed to be an exact replica of the ark described in Genesis. And from everything I've read, the biblical ark wouldn't exactly have been seaworthy either.
That's the amount of time these fuckbats thought was too much of a burden on the bosses in their air-conditioned offices. Ten. Minutes. Every. Four. 𝘏𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘴. When I was into hiking, the rule of thumb I was taught was that in hot weather, one should take a break and drink something every twenty minutes or so to prevent dehydration and heatstroke (and that was for a 𝘕𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘯 summer).
How is anyone working outdoors in that state even still alive?
People get all bent about "Islamophobia" while failing to recognize that Islam is easily as problematic as Christianity is, and in places, more so. All religions and particularly the Abrahamic variety are all due the same scrutiny and skepticism.
Wow ... Kentucky is retrogressing at a breakneck pace! Makes me wonder if their Democratic governor will survive the next election. I'm NOT encouraged.
Jordan Klepper did a piece on carrying while white and carrying while black. It's not actual research but it's illustrative. Once they start making liberals wear the sign of the beast on their foreheads though, it'll be worse. Anyway, I'm not sure I want to live in a country where people were always pulling guns on each other, left and right – left or right. Even so, shooting a couple of them might make them think twice. That's assuming they're capable of rational thought, which I doubt
After more than two decades as America’s best-selling beer, Bud Light has slipped into second place.
Modelo Especial, a Mexican lager, overtook Bud Light in U.S. retail dollar sales in the month ending June 3, according to Nielsen data analyzed by Bump Williams Consulting. Modelo controlled 8.4% of U.S. grocery, convenience and liquor store sales; Bud Light fell to 7.3%.
Grupo Modelo, the Mexican brewer, is owned by Anheuser-Busch InBev, the same parent company of Bud Light.
I saw this on a blog post about beer – well mostly about beer. They seem to think Mexican beer was on the whole superior to US Beer. I haven't had enough of either to really comment, except I'm a little surprised that they went for a Mexican beer, them being patriotic and all.
The fact that this silly boycott had any measurable effect at all amuses me. MAGAts' taste in beer, evidently, is exactly as deep and rich as everything else about them... meanwhile, everybody else must have already been drinking beer with actual flavor in it if butthurt wingnuts made 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 much of a dent in Bud's bottom line.
Can we have like a really big parade celebrating this? Have the lead float be a 50-foot long mock-up of his grave with winners from RuPaul's Drag Race dancing on it?
The Ark Encounter stands as a monument to ignorance. That so many people would pay to visit this place is a stark reminder of what intelligent and educated people are up against. This place does not fill me with hope for the future of our species.
Maybe not our species but surely our “kind”.
We've done a fair job of pushing most other apes to the brink of extinction. I doubt apekind will survive us.
Ah, you aren’t very adept at defining “kind” to the glory of God. :-)
You're too kind.
"Kind" ... [groan!]
MAGA lives in Ark Encounter.
So I got bored. I went and checked the Wikipedia page for Walt Disney World, and looked at the attendance records for various years. (Note these do have references listed.) I then took the April attendance numbers for the Ark park and multiplied by 12 to get a theoretical number for this year's attendance. As a round figure, 71000*12=852000; then I figured I'd keep going because why not at that point? Assuming that all of the above attendance is for adults only, I multiplied by 110, which is what a 3 day 'bouncer' pass costs (https://arkencounter.com/tickets/) and got $93,720,000. I must admit my brain kinda froze up for a moment there.
What I learned from all this is that the Ark Encounter is really apparently designed to separate gullible Christians from their money. It may never be on Disney's scale, but I doubt Ham cares; he's undoubtedly laughing all the way to the bank.
Interesting. But just offhand I can't think of anything about organized religion that ISN'T designed to separate fools and their money.
"According to the all-powerful Google, Walt Disney World’s absolute maximum capacity is 320,000 people. Holy cow. EPCOT’s approximate capacity is 110,000 people, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom are both estimated to be around 60,000 people, and the smaller parks. Magic Kingdom, is estimated to have a maximum capacity of 100,000 people."
In three days Disney can surpass the Arks best yearly total. Apples and oranges, but not even oranges. : )
I don't find the capacity but I have the numbers of visitors by year.
Futuroscope : 1.92 millions 2022. Record 2.9 millions en 1997 (went twice that year, once with my high school, once with DM).
Park Asterix : 2 632 000, 2022 (record).
Disneyland Paris : 3.5 millions 2021 (around 10 millions every year before the pandemic).
So, like a bushel of apples vs. half a moldy kumquat.
I'd rather eat half a moldy kumquat than visit the Ark.
Good comparison. I've always thought they are charging amusement park prices for a road side attraction. I suppose it is actually a hybrid of that, 2-3 hours would be about how long you stay at the Ark, Disney park it would be 8-10 hours. Something like "Carhenge" or the world's largest ball of twine, maybe 1 full hour
That the American public is still paying $$$ to attend Ham's masturbation fantasy only validates what PT Barnum had to say about such flubdubbery:
"The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it."
--Phineas Taylor Barnum, from his book "The Humbugs of the World: An Account of Humbugs, Delusions, Impositions, Quackeries, Deceits and Deceivers Generally, in All Ages." (1865)
I will admit to admiring the likes of Aron Ra and Seth Andrews, both of whom have taken the bullet for us and gone through that mess, reporting on it as they did so. My thanks to them for that. For myself, there isn't enough money in the world to get me to endure that travesty.
I still want to see Ken Ham rendered to the harshest form of bankruptcy available to our financial system. He deserves nothing less.
On the day his "ship" finally goes down, I'd like to see him pour gasoline on the rotting wood and toss a match on it.
Maybe a giant sinkhole will open underneath it and swallow the whole mess down.
That YHVH hasn't already wiped out this place based on graven images just leads one to the conclusion that he doesn't exist.
Unfortunately, the supply of rubes shows no signs of drying up.
Erika (Gutsick Gibbon) went through both the zoo boat and the "museum". Her two hour tour includes dunking on the list of kinds.
I would have loved to see my favorite biology teacher's* reaction go this waste of money.
* No idea if she is still alive she was close to retiring when I last saw her 28 years ago.
There was actually a TV advertisement about Ham's Hallucination on the Food Network the other day. I managed NOT to do a spit-take with my 12-year-old Tamnavulin, while watching giraffes and llamas make vapid comments about the park.
I suppose I can consider Ron Reagan's regular appearances on MSNBC (and occasionally CBS!!!) as compensatory, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd rather not see Ham's crap at all!
CBS? I've long had the impression that network skewed to an older demographic. (Of course, I watch a lot of 'crime procedurals' on CBS, so maybe I'm biased)
With on-air "talent" like Norah O'Donnell (who still keeps referring to "President Trump" and Fox News hack Major Garrett, they're clearly trying to attract the Fox crowd. That loud whirring sound I keep hearing must be Ed Murrow and Walter Kronkite spinning in their graves.
CBS has aired Ron Reagan's "Not afraid of burning in hell" ad at least a couple times during 60 Minutes. Some time back, they were resistant to giving him and the FFRF air time, but apparently, times have changed.
And I appreciate that change.
OT
Meanwhile in Kentucky, this is happening to women there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x56nedPk79c
Forced to carry fetuses to term that have no chance of survival. Horrific.
It's horrific, and we're going to see more of it. Abortion bans just are not the 'save the babies!' instruments they are all too often billed as; and quite honestly I blame the complete lack of education about pregnancy for the number of people who think they are. There will be some very difficult years ahead for those who get pregnant or want children in the near future.
Some days, I really do wonder if humanity is a lost cause.
Lawmaker's only medical decision for others should be the setup of a licensing board made up of members of the AMA.
Then they would fuck that up too. Instead of Board exams doctors would only be asked if they support abortion. NO other questions.
Especially since the new head of the AMA is an out gay man. https://www.ama-assn.org/about/leadership/jesse-m-ehrenfeld-md-mph-wins-office-ama-president-elect Now if we can just get them to stop opposing a national health plan.
<--Mitch McConnell is all smiles.
The Daily Show once did a montage of Moscow Mitch's creepy smile.
Mitch McConnell is an abomination.
I think I read an article about this – the doctors in Kentucky could have legally operated, but the too scared in case they were prosecuted. This doesn't bode well for Kentucky's ability to attract doctors does it? Probably why their 48th in life expectancy. Way behind Hawaii, California, and Guam. Do they know? Do they care?
OT: Even on a Saturday, when we aren't likely to get another article, it appears most readers bypass yet another Ark Encounter story. Hemant must have money on when this place collapses. At least, that's the only reason I can think of, for this obsession.
I was thinking of sneaking out and coming back later since the foot traffic on this article is so light.
Well, it's maintenance weekend, so I have to go into work soon, but it'll be mostly waiting, so I'll probably check in, though I plan to take the Kindle.
So you're a maintenance man? (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) 😜
Do they make more than IT guys?
Well, I gotta admit, that place collapsing is something I'd love to see.
Maybe the low comment count will finally drive the message home to Hemant. I hope.
Hamsterbrain's Ark Park: a ship so poorly-conceived that it could only float on land.
Based on a mythical ship so poorly-conceived it would've fallen to pieces even before the waters rose.
Indeed. I wonder if Ham knows anything about the schooner Wyoming, and what happened to it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming_(schooner)
Of course, Ham will say that the ark was sustained by faith or some such nonsense. Then, too, nonsense is Ham's primary stock in trade.
The Edmund Fitzgerald was a far-better built big ship, but the overloaded cargo at the center of the ship sank and/or broke it in two.
Of course the fictitious Noah, being a vintner with no ship-building experience, would have no idea of what he was doing.
Had he stuck with wine then gwd wouold be stymied. LOLOLOL
One does wonder why, exactly, this god who allegedly created humanity couldn't have just restored or recreated it after the flood.
I mean, if you're going to start over you should actually start over, not erase all but one tiny bit then start from there, right?
The mythical Noah and his family repopulated the world with the very kind of people YHVH flooded the globe to be rid of. The flood was a complete waste of effort.
It was also totally unnecessary, with an all-powerful powerful god who could've simply winked all the "bad people" out of existence with a snap of his fingers, ala Thanos.
And left the puppies and kittens alone.
If I remember correctly it didn't even took a generation for humanity to fuck up again (the story of Noah drunk and one of his son cursed).
And if it had...nothing would have changed because it's all a fantasy...a delusional fantasy that has long outlived its usefulness to quell the fears and ignorance of the masses.
That makes perfect sense, doesn't it? It IS supposed to be an exact replica of the ark described in Genesis. And from everything I've read, the biblical ark wouldn't exactly have been seaworthy either.
OT: More evidence that the cruelty is the point for the NSGOP. https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/16/texas-heat-wave-water-break-construction-workers/#:~:text=As%20Texas%20swelters%2C%20local%20rules,workers%20die%20from%20high%20temperatures.
Wow. Tex-ass conservatives say mandated water breaks "bog down businesses." I suppose worker dropping dead from heat strokes won't?
This wasn't about the construction workers. This was about sticking it to cities that fund this state.
"If I owned Texas and all hell, I would rent out Texas and live in hell."
-- A dust-covered Gen. Philip Sheridan, Galveston Texas (1880)
"𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘭𝘢𝘸 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘯𝘶𝘭𝘭𝘪𝘧𝘺 𝘰𝘳𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘴 𝘦𝘯𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘣𝘺 𝘈𝘶𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯 𝘪𝘯 2010 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘢𝘴 𝘪𝘯 2015 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘪𝘴𝘩𝘦𝘥 10-𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘶𝘵𝘦 𝘣𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘬𝘴 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘧𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘴 𝘴𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘶𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘬𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘥𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘬 𝘸𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘳 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘷𝘦𝘴 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘯."
𝐓𝐞𝐧 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐟𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐬.
That's the amount of time these fuckbats thought was too much of a burden on the bosses in their air-conditioned offices. Ten. Minutes. Every. Four. 𝘏𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘴. When I was into hiking, the rule of thumb I was taught was that in hot weather, one should take a break and drink something every twenty minutes or so to prevent dehydration and heatstroke (and that was for a 𝘕𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘯 summer).
How is anyone working outdoors in that state even still alive?
I can't answer that. I spend as little time outside as I can manage during the summer down here.
I am a creature of air conditioning.
But the construction workers were just collateral damage. The real point of the law was things like anti-discrimination ordinances.
They don't care if even their own supporters die if they can enforce their bigotry.
OT: I've been working on these for a couple of days. I'd appreciate it if those with social media accounts spread them far and wide.
https://www.zentaur.org/Pride/ProudToBeYou.mp4
https://www.zentaur.org/Pride/ProudToBeYou.gif
https://www.zentaur.org/Pride/ProudToBeYou.webp
Static Image:
https://www.zentaur.org/Pride/ProudToBeYou.png
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned
You can't trust anyone religious it seems. Or rather you can trust them – to do the wrong thing.
And this is why the founders wanted religion to play no part in governance.
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑜𝑛𝑙𝑦 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑏𝑙𝑒𝑚 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝐼𝑠𝑙𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑐 𝑓𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑠𝑚 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑎𝑙𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝐼𝑠𝑙𝑎𝑚.
-- Sam Harris
People get all bent about "Islamophobia" while failing to recognize that Islam is easily as problematic as Christianity is, and in places, more so. All religions and particularly the Abrahamic variety are all due the same scrutiny and skepticism.
HATE is the "right thing" to the followers/minions of that "loving" jesus.
Barnum & Bailey may have ceased operation in 2017, but the freak show is still alive in Kentucky.
But the freaks in freak shows are supposed to be limited to the performers. This one includes the customers too.
NOW WE ARE allowed to pull a gun on anyone we dislike. https://www.yahoo.com/news/kkk-members-kentucky-pull-gun-100005791.html
Wow ... Kentucky is retrogressing at a breakneck pace! Makes me wonder if their Democratic governor will survive the next election. I'm NOT encouraged.
Why do these assholes want everyone to relive "The Rifleman?"
The bigots seem to be unaware that those of us on the left also own guns.
Jordan Klepper did a piece on carrying while white and carrying while black. It's not actual research but it's illustrative. Once they start making liberals wear the sign of the beast on their foreheads though, it'll be worse. Anyway, I'm not sure I want to live in a country where people were always pulling guns on each other, left and right – left or right. Even so, shooting a couple of them might make them think twice. That's assuming they're capable of rational thought, which I doubt
"100% WHITE"
That kkklown will be in for a shock if he learns the human race came from Africa.
And that our Homo Sapiens ancestors who emigrated in Europe turned white way later than it was commonly thought.
OT - More proof consewertives are stupid. They boycott one brand of beer and replace it with another brand by the same company.
𝐁𝐮𝐝 𝐋𝐢𝐠𝐡𝐭 𝐢𝐬 𝐧𝐨 𝐥𝐨𝐧𝐠𝐞𝐫 𝐀𝐦𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐚’𝐬 𝐭𝐨𝐩 𝐛𝐞𝐞𝐫 𝐟𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐢-𝐋𝐆𝐁𝐓𝐐+ 𝐩𝐮𝐬𝐡𝐛𝐚𝐜𝐤
After more than two decades as America’s best-selling beer, Bud Light has slipped into second place.
Modelo Especial, a Mexican lager, overtook Bud Light in U.S. retail dollar sales in the month ending June 3, according to Nielsen data analyzed by Bump Williams Consulting. Modelo controlled 8.4% of U.S. grocery, convenience and liquor store sales; Bud Light fell to 7.3%.
Grupo Modelo, the Mexican brewer, is owned by Anheuser-Busch InBev, the same parent company of Bud Light.
https://apnews.com/article/bud-light-beer-modelo-sales-35db706836ca38d5fe194c93a3f641ff
I saw this on a blog post about beer – well mostly about beer. They seem to think Mexican beer was on the whole superior to US Beer. I haven't had enough of either to really comment, except I'm a little surprised that they went for a Mexican beer, them being patriotic and all.
I'm surprised the conservaturds and Trumpublicans aren't blaming it on the "influx" of "illegals".
Late ex president Jacques Chirac favorite beer, from his family and friends, was Corona. Fun fact he died in 2019.
"Fun fact he died in 2019."
You probably have a different idea of fun to M. Chirac. I doubt if it was much fun for him. 😁
The fact that this silly boycott had any measurable effect at all amuses me. MAGAts' taste in beer, evidently, is exactly as deep and rich as everything else about them... meanwhile, everybody else must have already been drinking beer with actual flavor in it if butthurt wingnuts made 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 much of a dent in Bud's bottom line.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/17/mormon-crickets-nevada
See – even religious insects are bad.
Where's its partner? Why isn't in a white shirt and riding a bicycle?
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/64/2753/640/crickets.jpg
🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Still dead! https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/352193832_313628107663948_3068243454166608419_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=0s5zeKjuObIAX-VxduO&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfBERiW4POWh3f3FO7RqlTXCTJddVvFpVm3NlI_R8Kvp2Q&oe=6492366B
Just checking?
YEP!
Can we have like a really big parade celebrating this? Have the lead float be a 50-foot long mock-up of his grave with winners from RuPaul's Drag Race dancing on it?
Dancing? Pissing!
With the Cryptkeeper acting as Grand Marshall, shriek laughing the whole way.
They look too much like the other. pat robertson's gullibles would think he resurrected.
DeInsanity is falling fast. Everywhere. https://www.thestreet.com/travel/disney-gets-a-big-win-in-battle-with-desantis?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO
Mouse defeats Rat.
The "Rats have rights" organization wants to talk about a potential defamation suit.