I think some of them have a hard time believing that the rest of us arenβt really Christians deep down. Weβre angry at god, we selfishly want to do whatever we want, yadda yadda. They shouldnβt have to cater to our little tantrums because we donβt believe what we say anyway.
It's lost on a lot of these people that rights are not matters of majority rule. Rights exist to protect the individual from the tyranny of the majority.
Dear State Rep. Teresa Martinez, if you feel the urgent need to pray during a meeting, do what your book of magic tells you, leave the room and find a closet nearby to do it. For other urgent needs you are already expected to leave the meeting room and visit a bathroom stall instead of doing it in front of the members and public of the school board. Or better, you should avoid such situations and visit a church (and a bathroom) before the meeting starts.
So now we're talking about prayer in schools again, only THIS time, it's prayer in school board meetings. It makes me wonder: if faculty-led prayer isn't kosher in the classroom, why should it be any more approved in a board meeting? Add to that the mealy-mouthed approval of non-Christian prayers but Oh, NO, NOT Satanist prayers, and the slanted, Christian-favoring foundation for this whole mess becomes glaringly apparent.
And once again, we have Christians indulging in territory-marking and virtue-signaling. Yeah, I know; it's what they do. I just wish they wouldn't.
As always my question is, what do they think these prayers are going to accomplish? How many prayers do you suppose were offered up during the Holocaust, and to what effect? Prayer has a success rate exactly equal to random chance. In any event if they believe their God has a plan for everyone, then why do they keep asking him to bend the rules for them? At the end of the day, this amounts to conservative Christians doing what they do . . . attempting to mark their territory in the public square owned by everyone.
Those Holocaust prayers are still in the queue, things got a bit backed up, thank you for your patience, yadda. πΆπΆπΆβππππΆππ’π πππΆπΆπΆ
Or getting off by watching human suffer, perhaps thatβs why trio of fuckers didnβt stop the Holocaust is because it was sexually arousing for the trio of assholes.
"In many communities, Hispanic communities, they're very Catholic, and they love God."
Too bad they don't love their children enough to abandon Catholicism for its misogyny, its hatred of LGBTQs and, most of all, its child molesting clergy.
Ok, so (many) Hispanics are catholic, what has this got to do with the price of fish? Which bit of the state should be se-cu-lar do you not get? There are enough opportunities for people to pray, thereβs no need to add them to official council events.
Mr/Ms Chairperson, can I submit a motion please, can we arrange for every office holder to be issued with a printout of the constitution? Itβd be great if we could offer a choice, either Arial point 14 or coloured crayons?
At this point, every time some grandstanding politician starts in with 'prayer before meeting' garbage, it's time to ask "Didn't you pray in private before the meeting, as Matthew 6:5 instructs?"
By now, we all know the real point here is to pretend to be doing the Christian thing by either adding unnecessary prayers to the meetings or propping up the Christian persecution complex. This behavior needs to be cut off long before any votes are taken on these measures, it's time to start recognizing the garbage for what it is. Christians regard these measures as culture war battles; they are incapable of backing down from it even if they wanted to as they think their Jesus told them to do it.
These Christian politicians need to answer for why meeting time should be used on their personal religious prayers when they apparently won't spend their own personal time on these oh-so-important prayers themselves. Unless and until they're willing to answer for that, they should be soundly told to pray on their own time and stop wasting the rest of the council/meeting/board's time. There are times for a circus, sure, but local school board meetings should not be those times.
The Grand Canyon State is 42nd in Education. Seems there should be some legislation to remedy THAT instead of wasting time and taxpayer money on something that is blatantly illegal and unconstitutional.
I love that she didnβt back away, but actually went after him ready to throw hands. Then she went back to finish the town hall. Thatβs what toughness looks like, not whatever the regime and ICE are doing.
I am flummoxed why the RWNJ community is even going after her right now. In a general sense, yeah I get it, but as far as I know she's had practically zero to do with the protests and conflicts in Minnesota. It's like they can't even target the correct progressives. Still I guess this is just the Christian fundie version of Iran's "the US attacked us, so we must get Hizbollah to fire missiles at Israel" thinking.
I guess that I'm becoming cynical as I get older seeing people for whom the only thing which counts is to "win" even if they have to lie to do it. They see and believe what they want to regardless of the truth.
βItβs meant to give Christianity an unfair leg up and turn it into some kind of default civic faith for everyone.β
Yes, exactly. Martinez even says so.
βIβm going to say that that goes to uniformity.β
She wants everyone to be uniform, everyone must believe as she does. Or at least present as though they do. Uniformity is what the military requires, not education. Uniformity is the opposite of religious freedom, btw. Which she is trying to use as a justification for forcing religion into the school board meetings.
βWhy must we do the land acknowledgment? Why canβt we just simply say that in our mind, weβre going to acknowledge the land?β
Because the land acknowledgement is about telling others you acknowledge our ancestors took their land. The point is to make it heard by the people youβve wronged. Do you apologize silently in your head? No, you speak it out loud to the person who youβve wronged. Otherwise itβs nothing at all. But prayer isnβt the same thing. At all. Prayer is supposedly a conversation with a supreme being that is only present in your mind. Now, I know that when I say this as an atheist, heβs only in your head it sounds like Iβm just calling him imaginary, and yes I believe that, but the point Iβm making is that even if you think heβs totally real, your own story claims that he is in your head or heart and maybe everywhere, and that you donβt even need to speak out loud to communicate with him. So, I do not intend that as an insult, or dismissal, just an explanation why a silent prayer is effective versus why a vocal apology/acknowledgment is necessary.
βI understand what youβre saying, though. I respect what youβre saying with regards, how come you just canβt say a private little prayer to yourself? I think itβs important for the community to know where youβre at. I think itβs important for the community, as a body, to see what that board represents about education.β
And here again, she is saying that she wants the board of education to push religion on the children. Infringing on the studentsβ and their parentsβ religious freedom.
Thatβs pretty nervy of Martinez talking about respect (I suspect that was just lip service). Why canβt she respect the fact that religion is not whatβs supposed to be on the table for a school board meeting. Last time I checked, itβs supposed to be about education. Maybe she needs a (constitutional) lesson.
What is stopping you from showing up 10 minutes early and praying with other Christians in your office?
You don't want to worship, you want to impose your religion on others without their consent. You want to pray in public and have everyone think that you're so very pious.
Frankly, if Jesus is real and he said what was recorded, you should be grateful to the Constitution that you can't further damn yourself with public government prayers to scream "LOOK AT ME!"
Even before Matthew 6:5-6, Jesus told his followers not to βpractice their righteousnessβ (giving, praying, fasting, etc.) in front of others to be seen by others. Doing good works for human applause or recognition gets no points. He said if they did that, they would have no reward from his father in heaven (see Matthew 6:1).
You expect the average Christian fascist to read the Bible, this is a group that hasnβt pick up and read a book since they left high school (I am being generous and assuming that the actually graduated, rather than drop put).
I have come to the conclusion that the reason the average Christian fascist doesnβt read the Bible is that they (MAGAS) wouldnβt understand most of the words in the bible such as: raze, pillar, wroth, churlish, adamant, etc., because of the MAGAS limited vocabulary, due to not reading any books! Otherwise, the Christian fascist would actually know what is in their holy book! Well, it is my hypothesis anyway!
Wasn't too long ago that the folks migrating from northern Europe opposed the immigration of those from southern Europe for being the wrong sort of Christian - along with all the standard racially bigoted excuses.
You'd think someone with the last name Martinez would be aware of that. The leopard was eating her ancestors' faces maybe a hundred, hundred fifty years ago, yet she thinks she's the leopard.
Isnβt there a town called Hell in Scandinavia, but still the MAGAS wouldnβt be able to find it! Or the fucking idiots would actually believe that it is a gate to their mythical version of hell!
Sheβs got a point β¦ half a point that is: Yes, many came because they faced religious persecution back home and yes, they valued freedom of religion. But overall many were rather keen on the state not being involved in religion at all! And youβre now wanting to commingle religion and the state.
Your argument doesnβt actually say what you think it says.
Signed - a European. Weβve had an awful lot of war, persecution and bloodshed based on religion. It was awful and thatβs the reason why weβre looking to do a few things differently!
πΌπ ππππ¦ πππππ’πππ‘πππ , π»ππ πππππ πππππ’πππ‘πππ , π‘βππ¦βππ π£πππ¦ πΆππ‘βππππ, πππ π‘βππ¦ πππ£π πΊππ.
How is that relevant? The school board serves everyone.
πΌπ π¦ππ’ πππβπ‘ πππ£π πΊππ, π¦ππ’ πππβπ‘ βππ£π π‘π ππππ¦, π¦ππ’ πππ π€πππ ππ’π‘, π¦ππ’ πππ π ππ‘ ππ’πππ‘ππ¦, π¦ππ’ πππβπ‘ βππ£π π‘π ππ π‘βπππ.
Oops! Quiet part out loud! "If you're not Christian, sit down and shut up and accept your place as less than full members of the community."
"This part of the school board meeting isn't *for* you" comes through loud and clear, doesn't it?
ALL parts of the school board meeting should be for ALL citizens.
MAGAS think anyone who is not like them are not even human deserving Human Rights and Civil Liberties.
I think some of them have a hard time believing that the rest of us arenβt really Christians deep down. Weβre angry at god, we selfishly want to do whatever we want, yadda yadda. They shouldnβt have to cater to our little tantrums because we donβt believe what we say anyway.
If you donβt love Satan, you donβt have to pray, you can walk out, you can sit quietly, you donβt have to be there.
If the shoe fitsβ¦.
Why can't the kkkristers walk out to pray? Like people do to talk on their phones or to smoke?
It's lost on a lot of these people that rights are not matters of majority rule. Rights exist to protect the individual from the tyranny of the majority.
How xtians hate Jesus and his instructions about NOT praying in public.
Indeed! That has always amazed me too. All they need to do is read Matthew 6. Pretty much covers the whole subject.
Dear State Rep. Teresa Martinez, if you feel the urgent need to pray during a meeting, do what your book of magic tells you, leave the room and find a closet nearby to do it. For other urgent needs you are already expected to leave the meeting room and visit a bathroom stall instead of doing it in front of the members and public of the school board. Or better, you should avoid such situations and visit a church (and a bathroom) before the meeting starts.
Clear case of show and tell.
Even a bathroom in a church!
Or stop at a nearby church on your way to the meeting!
Of course, then no one else would see and hear them. Not showy enough.
So now we're talking about prayer in schools again, only THIS time, it's prayer in school board meetings. It makes me wonder: if faculty-led prayer isn't kosher in the classroom, why should it be any more approved in a board meeting? Add to that the mealy-mouthed approval of non-Christian prayers but Oh, NO, NOT Satanist prayers, and the slanted, Christian-favoring foundation for this whole mess becomes glaringly apparent.
And once again, we have Christians indulging in territory-marking and virtue-signaling. Yeah, I know; it's what they do. I just wish they wouldn't.
I wish I wake up next to Ryan Reynolds every morning. What about MY NEEDS????????
As long as Iβm first!
Get in line! π
π€£π€£π€£πππ
As always my question is, what do they think these prayers are going to accomplish? How many prayers do you suppose were offered up during the Holocaust, and to what effect? Prayer has a success rate exactly equal to random chance. In any event if they believe their God has a plan for everyone, then why do they keep asking him to bend the rules for them? At the end of the day, this amounts to conservative Christians doing what they do . . . attempting to mark their territory in the public square owned by everyone.
Those Holocaust prayers are still in the queue, things got a bit backed up, thank you for your patience, yadda. πΆπΆπΆβππππΆππ’π πππΆπΆπΆ
I suspect Jesus was far to preoccupied with the impure thoughts of young boys to intervene.
Or getting off by watching human suffer, perhaps thatβs why trio of fuckers didnβt stop the Holocaust is because it was sexually arousing for the trio of assholes.
They think public state-led prayers are going to accomplish Christian establishment. And they're right - to some minor extent, they will.
They are soooo stupid, they think prayers actually do something.
"In many communities, Hispanic communities, they're very Catholic, and they love God."
Too bad they don't love their children enough to abandon Catholicism for its misogyny, its hatred of LGBTQs and, most of all, its child molesting clergy.
They pretend that last part never happens.
Or they blame the child for the rape!
βThat 5-year-old hussy led me on!β
Ok, so (many) Hispanics are catholic, what has this got to do with the price of fish? Which bit of the state should be se-cu-lar do you not get? There are enough opportunities for people to pray, thereβs no need to add them to official council events.
Mr/Ms Chairperson, can I submit a motion please, can we arrange for every office holder to be issued with a printout of the constitution? Itβd be great if we could offer a choice, either Arial point 14 or coloured crayons?
Thankyou.
Abraham Lincoln said watching βMelaniaβ was the worst experience heβs ever had in a theatre.
He was dying to leave!
Lincoln - I'd rather have a hole in my head.
Harsh!
But funny.
At this point, every time some grandstanding politician starts in with 'prayer before meeting' garbage, it's time to ask "Didn't you pray in private before the meeting, as Matthew 6:5 instructs?"
By now, we all know the real point here is to pretend to be doing the Christian thing by either adding unnecessary prayers to the meetings or propping up the Christian persecution complex. This behavior needs to be cut off long before any votes are taken on these measures, it's time to start recognizing the garbage for what it is. Christians regard these measures as culture war battles; they are incapable of backing down from it even if they wanted to as they think their Jesus told them to do it.
These Christian politicians need to answer for why meeting time should be used on their personal religious prayers when they apparently won't spend their own personal time on these oh-so-important prayers themselves. Unless and until they're willing to answer for that, they should be soundly told to pray on their own time and stop wasting the rest of the council/meeting/board's time. There are times for a circus, sure, but local school board meetings should not be those times.
Kids or anyone else are already allowed to pray on their own in schools as long is it is not led by faculty.
If she wants to pray, go to church, don't do it on the taxpayers dime.
The Grand Canyon State is 42nd in Education. Seems there should be some legislation to remedy THAT instead of wasting time and taxpayer money on something that is blatantly illegal and unconstitutional.
Heaven forbid! π
Absolutely spot on!!!!
Attempting to groom kids again. Bet this bill isn't being sponsored by drag queens and LGBTQs.
I see the lying liar is just making stuff up again. This time he is saying that Ilhan Omar probably sprayed herself - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jan/28/ilhan-omar-attack-trump-minneapolis-ecuador-embassy-rubio-venezuela-machado-iran-iraq-latest-news-updates?page=with%3Ablock-697a12db8f081b413fc2b989#block-697a12db8f081b413fc2b989
Unsurprisingly, he hasn't seen the video of the incident.
I love that she didnβt back away, but actually went after him ready to throw hands. Then she went back to finish the town hall. Thatβs what toughness looks like, not whatever the regime and ICE are doing.
Per usual, he knows what he believes and doesn't want to be distracted by inconvenient things like FACTS.
"doesn't want to be distracted by inconvenient things like FACTS"
Oh, you can prove anything with facts - https://www.stewartlee.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Stewart-Lee-Facts-Black-Green.png
Ah, Stewart Lee. Not my favourite comedian, but he did a very nice and very long joke about Top Gear.
Do you really think watching the video would change his mind? He probably did watch the video and lied about it. He is a pathological liar after all.
On a conservative site that I comment on, someone actually said that Omar staged the whole thing. Sigh.
I am flummoxed why the RWNJ community is even going after her right now. In a general sense, yeah I get it, but as far as I know she's had practically zero to do with the protests and conflicts in Minnesota. It's like they can't even target the correct progressives. Still I guess this is just the Christian fundie version of Iran's "the US attacked us, so we must get Hizbollah to fire missiles at Israel" thinking.
"I am flummoxed why the RWNJ community is even going after her right now"
She is a) brown; b) female and c) Muslim. Plus the fact that Trump can't stop bad-mouthing her.
What bothered me the most was the apparent lack of concern for any harm that could have been done to her in other comments on the site.
Bothered...but not surprised.
Or willing to take action!
I did respond to those comments but there's not much else I can do in an online forum.
I guess that I'm becoming cynical as I get older seeing people for whom the only thing which counts is to "win" even if they have to lie to do it. They see and believe what they want to regardless of the truth.
βItβs meant to give Christianity an unfair leg up and turn it into some kind of default civic faith for everyone.β
Yes, exactly. Martinez even says so.
βIβm going to say that that goes to uniformity.β
She wants everyone to be uniform, everyone must believe as she does. Or at least present as though they do. Uniformity is what the military requires, not education. Uniformity is the opposite of religious freedom, btw. Which she is trying to use as a justification for forcing religion into the school board meetings.
βWhy must we do the land acknowledgment? Why canβt we just simply say that in our mind, weβre going to acknowledge the land?β
Because the land acknowledgement is about telling others you acknowledge our ancestors took their land. The point is to make it heard by the people youβve wronged. Do you apologize silently in your head? No, you speak it out loud to the person who youβve wronged. Otherwise itβs nothing at all. But prayer isnβt the same thing. At all. Prayer is supposedly a conversation with a supreme being that is only present in your mind. Now, I know that when I say this as an atheist, heβs only in your head it sounds like Iβm just calling him imaginary, and yes I believe that, but the point Iβm making is that even if you think heβs totally real, your own story claims that he is in your head or heart and maybe everywhere, and that you donβt even need to speak out loud to communicate with him. So, I do not intend that as an insult, or dismissal, just an explanation why a silent prayer is effective versus why a vocal apology/acknowledgment is necessary.
βI understand what youβre saying, though. I respect what youβre saying with regards, how come you just canβt say a private little prayer to yourself? I think itβs important for the community to know where youβre at. I think itβs important for the community, as a body, to see what that board represents about education.β
And here again, she is saying that she wants the board of education to push religion on the children. Infringing on the studentsβ and their parentsβ religious freedom.
Thatβs pretty nervy of Martinez talking about respect (I suspect that was just lip service). Why canβt she respect the fact that religion is not whatβs supposed to be on the table for a school board meeting. Last time I checked, itβs supposed to be about education. Maybe she needs a (constitutional) lesson.
What is stopping you from showing up 10 minutes early and praying with other Christians in your office?
You don't want to worship, you want to impose your religion on others without their consent. You want to pray in public and have everyone think that you're so very pious.
Frankly, if Jesus is real and he said what was recorded, you should be grateful to the Constitution that you can't further damn yourself with public government prayers to scream "LOOK AT ME!"
Even before Matthew 6:5-6, Jesus told his followers not to βpractice their righteousnessβ (giving, praying, fasting, etc.) in front of others to be seen by others. Doing good works for human applause or recognition gets no points. He said if they did that, they would have no reward from his father in heaven (see Matthew 6:1).
You expect the average Christian fascist to read the Bible, this is a group that hasnβt pick up and read a book since they left high school (I am being generous and assuming that the actually graduated, rather than drop put).
I have come to the conclusion that the reason the average Christian fascist doesnβt read the Bible is that they (MAGAS) wouldnβt understand most of the words in the bible such as: raze, pillar, wroth, churlish, adamant, etc., because of the MAGAS limited vocabulary, due to not reading any books! Otherwise, the Christian fascist would actually know what is in their holy book! Well, it is my hypothesis anyway!
Not only is praying in public frowned upon in their own scriptures, but it's not an act of devotion at all - it's marketing and advertising.
It is self-serving promotion using religion as a tool - sick.
And as we've all said before: virtue-signaling and territory-marking!
β Freedom of religion is why many, many people came over from Europe.β
Sounds about white.
Lots of other places they came from, too. Iran, Iraq, Africa.
Wasn't too long ago that the folks migrating from northern Europe opposed the immigration of those from southern Europe for being the wrong sort of Christian - along with all the standard racially bigoted excuses.
You'd think someone with the last name Martinez would be aware of that. The leopard was eating her ancestors' faces maybe a hundred, hundred fifty years ago, yet she thinks she's the leopard.
Yes, it's not so long since Italians and Eastern Europeans were considered not quite white.
My parents didn't consider Italians white. I guess it must have annoyed them at some level that my best friend is Italian-descent.
We would think.
She would not.
Not that the average MAGA could find any of those places on a map unless it is mark!
Or heaven or hell.
Isnβt there a town called Hell in Scandinavia, but still the MAGAS wouldnβt be able to find it! Or the fucking idiots would actually believe that it is a gate to their mythical version of hell!
There is indeed.
Norway and Michigan.
Also Bumpass hell in Lassen.
Thanks, I will have to remember that!
Hell, Norway. π
Sheβs got a point β¦ half a point that is: Yes, many came because they faced religious persecution back home and yes, they valued freedom of religion. But overall many were rather keen on the state not being involved in religion at all! And youβre now wanting to commingle religion and the state.
Your argument doesnβt actually say what you think it says.
Signed - a European. Weβve had an awful lot of war, persecution and bloodshed based on religion. It was awful and thatβs the reason why weβre looking to do a few things differently!