Oh, they understand it alright. They just hatr that the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause isn't trumped by the free exercise clause. They want free exercise absolutism, the idea that their personal religious beliefs should take precedence over everyone else's rights. Not just Christian Fucking Privilege, but ๐บ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐ Christianity.
I can vouch from personal experience that the catholics have had their hands out for that sweet, sweet taxpayer money for decades. They were pretty much unsuccessful in getting their grubby mitts on it until the current MAGA SCOTUS started tearing down the wall of separation.
Even worse: mandatory Roman Catholic Christianity. St. Mark's Episcopal Church, up the street from my house, flies the LGBT flag. I can't imagine their preschool discriminates against anybody.
The oldest global pedophile ring on the planet has plenty of money to offer free pre K. They just wanted to ram their bullshit into children along with their shlong and get paid for it. Fk them. The sooner they die out, the better.
โWe will keep fighting to ensure that every preschooler in Colorado can access quality, affordable education.โ
Excuse me!?! How does fighting for the privilege to discriminate against the preschoolers ensure every preschooler has access to quality, affordable education? Discrimination is antithetical to ensuring all students have access. Do you people even hear yourselves? Words have meanings, you know. Christ, I doubt any child would benefit from your program considering the lack of knowledge yโall are expressing.
Having been through kids in preschool, I'd love to hear them state specifics...particularly since there is generally only ever one parent interacting with the school at a time. Wife drops kid off...how does that interaction change if there's another wife at work? Husband picks kid up...how does that interaction change if there's another husband at work? You get a permission slip back with one signed parent's name on it. The sex of the other spouse matters for that permission slip...how?
I guess maybe at the holiday shows you don't want same sex parents sitting together? But in fact with straight people same sex people sit together all the time. Some other couple shows up you're friends with, it's quite normal for the dudes to sit together to talk while the women do the same (and I bet that with a gay couple, the spouses may do exactly the same thing and sit with straight friends on occasion because we all see our spouses plenty already.)
THAT is an attack on the very concept of publicly funded education, and I'd personally like to see it shot down with prejudice. Private schools of any type are not owed state support merely because there is a state option. That's never been how it works.
Good! Looks like the anti-LGBTQ prayers coming from the Church of the Holy Pedophile failed spectacularly. Chalk up another secular victory against the forces of darkness.
So, the catholics want people to believe that equal treatment under state law is 'discrimination against their religious schools.' What hogwash! How, then, do they explain the 40-odd religious schools that are participating in CO's free pre-K program with no problems at all?
IF the parents of these catholic kids think that giving them a catholic pre-K education is that important, they'll cough up the tuition. And that's the heart of the diocese's problem: they know that if it comes down to a choice between free pre-K with no discrimination and pricey pre-K with bigotry intact, those parents ain't stupid - or all that concerned with the church's culture wars. They're going with free pre-K. If the church wants to complete in that marketplace AND make the case that catholic pre-K is important to them, they'll pony up the funds to provide it free-of-charge to the affected parishes. Having grown up catholic, I can vouch that 'special collections' are routine part of the mass schtick.
I was born into a Catholic family, and as a matter of course got sent to the local parish elementary school. It was in a traditionally ethnic Polish neighborhood, Saint Mary of Czestochowa (they had a Polish language sermon at one of the Sunday masses). Whenever a family tried to enroll a child of the wrong ethnic persuasion or with special needs, they were told that the school had bilingual instruction in Polish and English and that the prospective student needed to be fluent in both languages to enroll. For eight years, my classmates were exclusively white; no hispanics, no blacks. I didn't get those until high school (which was also Catholic but not as bigoted).
In fact, I was unaware of my grade school's exclusionary policies until some forty years after I left there. It was true at one time that they did have instruction in Polish and English, but that was discontinued in 1924, when my father was in third grade. The nuns all spoke Polish even in my time, and they used to swear at us in that language. When I asked some of the people in the neighborhood who still spoke it what some of those words meant, they were shocked that I even knew those words and refused to translate.
The parish of Saint Mary of Czestochowa no longer exists; the church building is now a school of robotics, and the old school building is still a Catholic elementary school, and at least half of the kids who attend now would never have been allowed past the doors when I was a student there. As far as I know, the exclusionary policy was in use until the school changed hands.
Thanks. I fixed it. That's not a very obvious feature. I found out about that little scheme when I read a history of my neighborhood. After living in several different parts of the country, I'm back in my old ground, living just two blocks from that school.
This program isnโt about you, Catholic schools. Not your access to taxpayer money. Not your religious beliefs. Not your hurt feelings.
This program is about the students having access to preschool no matter who they are, who their parents are and how much money they have. If you canโt get behind that, then you donโt get to participate in the program. If you canโt compete, then you canโt compete.
If your beliefs werenโt all about being assholes, you wouldnโt be facing this โdilemmaโ.
Universal preschool is supposed to be universal, meaning all students.
The Catholic Church has historically always put doctrine and dogma over human beings and human sensibilities, as you well know. They think they should set the norms for society and are miffed when society ignores them.
Which means we need to continue rubbing their noses in situations like this until they get the message.
โThis ban forces parents to choose between paying out of pocket for the cost of faith-based preschool or receiving a free preschool education at any other private school in Colorado. It also hurts the ability of schools like St. Maryโs and St. Bernadetteโs to compete with other preschools that can offer free preschool education.โ
The program is not here to make preschools be competitive, the program is designed to allow all students to have access to preschool. The beneficiaries, and therefore the people the state needs to care about, are the children/students. Full stop. Your inability to compete is irrelevant. Too bad, so sad.
โThis ban forces parents to choose between paying out of pocket for the cost of faith-based preschool or receiving a free preschool education at any other private school in Colorado.โ
Tough shit. Pay for your own bigotry, child rape cult.
Their complaint that they will have to raise tuition to cover the lost students is wack anyway. Why donโt they beg funds from the Vatican to maintain the school and keep tuition low?
Wait, I forgot the money within the RCC only flows upward, never down. How Christ-like.
It's rich that the Church wants to claim that giving tax dollars to everyone but them would mean they are at a disadvantage. The Church can run preschools and other things cheaper because of tax breaks and donations. THEY are the ones that have an advantage over for profit preschools.
A careful reading of the churchโs arguments is that they are being told they must deny their โfaithโ to get government money. They are never arguing that they must deny their โevidenceโ, an important part of any court case, to get government money. So far this time the mythical beliefs, sans evidence, did not win over the rights of real human children not to be discriminated against!!! We will have to hold our celebrations until it gets past SCOTUS. ๐คฏ
Well there's no objective evidence on the question of whether SSM is a sin or not a sin.
But they aren't really being denied their faith IMO. "Their faith" is about belief; this is about one expression of it...in a professional setting...for which the government is helping to pay them. Just like a rastafarian can believe smoking dope is a sacrament but be told you can't do it during their HHS job, an RCC teacher can believe a kid's parents are living in sin but be told you can't discriminate against the kid on the job.
News Bulletin: mostly, conservatives ARE NOT FUNNY. Or at least not when they TRY to be funny. More often, they are funny by accident and when they don't WANT to be funny.
Remember FOXs attempt at a rightwing version of The Daily Show? No? That's ok. Hardly anyone does. It was called The 1/2 Hour News Hour and it bombed big time.
[๐]โ๐๐ ๐ ๐ ๐โ๐๐๐ ๐ก๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐ ๐ก๐๐ก๐ ๐กโ๐๐ก ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ข๐๐ ๐ข๐๐๐ฃ๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐ข๐๐๐ก๐๐๐, ๐กโ๐๐ ๐๐ก๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ข๐ ๐ก ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐.
๐โ๐๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐ฆ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐กโ๐ ๐ถ๐๐กโ๐๐๐๐ ๐ถโ๐ข๐๐โ ๐๐๐๐ ๐โ๐ก ๐ข๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐๐๐.
Oh, they understand it alright. They just hatr that the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause isn't trumped by the free exercise clause. They want free exercise absolutism, the idea that their personal religious beliefs should take precedence over everyone else's rights. Not just Christian Fucking Privilege, but ๐บ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฑ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ๐ Christianity.
They're open to everyone's money. Just not to everyone themselves.
I can vouch from personal experience that the catholics have had their hands out for that sweet, sweet taxpayer money for decades. They were pretty much unsuccessful in getting their grubby mitts on it until the current MAGA SCOTUS started tearing down the wall of separation.
Even worse: mandatory Roman Catholic Christianity. St. Mark's Episcopal Church, up the street from my house, flies the LGBT flag. I can't imagine their preschool discriminates against anybody.
The oldest global pedophile ring on the planet has plenty of money to offer free pre K. They just wanted to ram their bullshit into children along with their shlong and get paid for it. Fk them. The sooner they die out, the better.
If they can get the state to pay for a fresh stream of victims, that's more money for shuffling the ones who get caught to palatial hideaways.
A pair of dull pinking shears will make sure they keep the stupid chastity vow.
This is the kind of outside-the-box thinking that keeps me coming back here. Bravo!
Thank you I'm here til Thursday. Try the Veal.
โWe will keep fighting to ensure that every preschooler in Colorado can access quality, affordable education.โ
Excuse me!?! How does fighting for the privilege to discriminate against the preschoolers ensure every preschooler has access to quality, affordable education? Discrimination is antithetical to ensuring all students have access. Do you people even hear yourselves? Words have meanings, you know. Christ, I doubt any child would benefit from your program considering the lack of knowledge yโall are expressing.
WWJD? I cannot imagine the Jesus of the gospels would agree with their take on how to treat little kids.
๐ โ๐ถ๐๐กโ๐๐๐๐ ๐ ๐โ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐ก๐๐๐๐ก ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐-๐ ๐๐ฅ ๐๐๐ข๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐ข๐๐ฃ๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐ก๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐ก๐ข๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ฆ
Having been through kids in preschool, I'd love to hear them state specifics...particularly since there is generally only ever one parent interacting with the school at a time. Wife drops kid off...how does that interaction change if there's another wife at work? Husband picks kid up...how does that interaction change if there's another husband at work? You get a permission slip back with one signed parent's name on it. The sex of the other spouse matters for that permission slip...how?
I guess maybe at the holiday shows you don't want same sex parents sitting together? But in fact with straight people same sex people sit together all the time. Some other couple shows up you're friends with, it's quite normal for the dudes to sit together to talk while the women do the same (and I bet that with a gay couple, the spouses may do exactly the same thing and sit with straight friends on occasion because we all see our spouses plenty already.)
๐โ๐๐ ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐ ๐ก๐ ๐โ๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐ก๐ค๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐ ๐๐ข๐ก ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ก ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐กโ-๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐โ๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ฃ๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐โ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ข๐๐๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐ก ๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐กโ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ฃ๐๐ก๐ ๐ ๐โ๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐ถ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐
THAT is an attack on the very concept of publicly funded education, and I'd personally like to see it shot down with prejudice. Private schools of any type are not owed state support merely because there is a state option. That's never been how it works.
Good! Looks like the anti-LGBTQ prayers coming from the Church of the Holy Pedophile failed spectacularly. Chalk up another secular victory against the forces of darkness.
Why didn't/doesn't Jeebus just tell the Judges how to rule?
Pretty hard to adjudicate when an imaginary being is involved.
Sort of shit that shouldnโt concern kids theyโre there to fucking learn not be exposed to garbage
So, the catholics want people to believe that equal treatment under state law is 'discrimination against their religious schools.' What hogwash! How, then, do they explain the 40-odd religious schools that are participating in CO's free pre-K program with no problems at all?
IF the parents of these catholic kids think that giving them a catholic pre-K education is that important, they'll cough up the tuition. And that's the heart of the diocese's problem: they know that if it comes down to a choice between free pre-K with no discrimination and pricey pre-K with bigotry intact, those parents ain't stupid - or all that concerned with the church's culture wars. They're going with free pre-K. If the church wants to complete in that marketplace AND make the case that catholic pre-K is important to them, they'll pony up the funds to provide it free-of-charge to the affected parishes. Having grown up catholic, I can vouch that 'special collections' are routine part of the mass schtick.
I was born into a Catholic family, and as a matter of course got sent to the local parish elementary school. It was in a traditionally ethnic Polish neighborhood, Saint Mary of Czestochowa (they had a Polish language sermon at one of the Sunday masses). Whenever a family tried to enroll a child of the wrong ethnic persuasion or with special needs, they were told that the school had bilingual instruction in Polish and English and that the prospective student needed to be fluent in both languages to enroll. For eight years, my classmates were exclusively white; no hispanics, no blacks. I didn't get those until high school (which was also Catholic but not as bigoted).
In fact, I was unaware of my grade school's exclusionary policies until some forty years after I left there. It was true at one time that they did have instruction in Polish and English, but that was discontinued in 1924, when my father was in third grade. The nuns all spoke Polish even in my time, and they used to swear at us in that language. When I asked some of the people in the neighborhood who still spoke it what some of those words meant, they were shocked that I even knew those words and refused to translate.
The parish of Saint Mary of Czestochowa no longer exists; the church building is now a school of robotics, and the old school building is still a Catholic elementary school, and at least half of the kids who attend now would never have been allowed past the doors when I was a student there. As far as I know, the exclusionary policy was in use until the school changed hands.
Typo apology: "elementary", not "wlwmentary". My fingers were misaligned on the keyboard.
Update: Fixed.
Elmer Fudd Wlwmentary School.
3 dots top right on yr. comment has edit function. Fascinating comment BTW.
Thanks. I fixed it. That's not a very obvious feature. I found out about that little scheme when I read a history of my neighborhood. After living in several different parts of the country, I'm back in my old ground, living just two blocks from that school.
Wouldnโt it be lovely if Pope Leo got wind of this and told those Catholic schools to drop their lawsuit? ๐ณ๏ธโ๐๐ณ๏ธโโง๏ธ
New pope, same as the old pope, same as the old pope, same as the old pope......
Sure, it'd be nice. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.
Neither would I. More of a fanciful thoughtโฆ
Overall my thoughts are.
This program isnโt about you, Catholic schools. Not your access to taxpayer money. Not your religious beliefs. Not your hurt feelings.
This program is about the students having access to preschool no matter who they are, who their parents are and how much money they have. If you canโt get behind that, then you donโt get to participate in the program. If you canโt compete, then you canโt compete.
If your beliefs werenโt all about being assholes, you wouldnโt be facing this โdilemmaโ.
Universal preschool is supposed to be universal, meaning all students.
The Catholic Church has historically always put doctrine and dogma over human beings and human sensibilities, as you well know. They think they should set the norms for society and are miffed when society ignores them.
Which means we need to continue rubbing their noses in situations like this until they get the message.
And no, I don't expect that any time soon! ๐
โThis ban forces parents to choose between paying out of pocket for the cost of faith-based preschool or receiving a free preschool education at any other private school in Colorado. It also hurts the ability of schools like St. Maryโs and St. Bernadetteโs to compete with other preschools that can offer free preschool education.โ
The program is not here to make preschools be competitive, the program is designed to allow all students to have access to preschool. The beneficiaries, and therefore the people the state needs to care about, are the children/students. Full stop. Your inability to compete is irrelevant. Too bad, so sad.
โThis ban forces parents to choose between paying out of pocket for the cost of faith-based preschool or receiving a free preschool education at any other private school in Colorado.โ
Tough shit. Pay for your own bigotry, child rape cult.
Their complaint that they will have to raise tuition to cover the lost students is wack anyway. Why donโt they beg funds from the Vatican to maintain the school and keep tuition low?
Wait, I forgot the money within the RCC only flows upward, never down. How Christ-like.
The model currently being used by the US government.
I would write it raping child cult.
It's very much a Cult of Misogyny as well.
Them kids aren't going to learn how to be bigots on their own.
"You've got to be carefully taught."
โซโช You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught! โชโซ
-- from South Pacific
A show tune came to all our minds. Another reason I love coming here.
It's rich that the Church wants to claim that giving tax dollars to everyone but them would mean they are at a disadvantage. The Church can run preschools and other things cheaper because of tax breaks and donations. THEY are the ones that have an advantage over for profit preschools.
Their pseudo argument fail with a simple Internet research about how it works in countries with mandatory pre school subsidized by the state.
A careful reading of the churchโs arguments is that they are being told they must deny their โfaithโ to get government money. They are never arguing that they must deny their โevidenceโ, an important part of any court case, to get government money. So far this time the mythical beliefs, sans evidence, did not win over the rights of real human children not to be discriminated against!!! We will have to hold our celebrations until it gets past SCOTUS. ๐คฏ
Well there's no objective evidence on the question of whether SSM is a sin or not a sin.
But they aren't really being denied their faith IMO. "Their faith" is about belief; this is about one expression of it...in a professional setting...for which the government is helping to pay them. Just like a rastafarian can believe smoking dope is a sacrament but be told you can't do it during their HHS job, an RCC teacher can believe a kid's parents are living in sin but be told you can't discriminate against the kid on the job.
https://www.alternet.org/jimmy-kimmel-trump-2674164973/
OT but you can't make this shit up. A funny conservative show... almost a contradiction in terms.
Most right-wingers have had their sense of humor surgically removed.
News Bulletin: mostly, conservatives ARE NOT FUNNY. Or at least not when they TRY to be funny. More often, they are funny by accident and when they don't WANT to be funny.
And so it goes...
Conservatives think punching down is funny, thatโs the problem.
BINGO!!!
I was gonna write exactly what John wrote. Then when I saw his comment, I was about to write exactly what you wrote. Then I saw your comment.
Great minds think alike! :)
Cue the theme from The Twilight Zone!
Remember FOXs attempt at a rightwing version of The Daily Show? No? That's ok. Hardly anyone does. It was called The 1/2 Hour News Hour and it bombed big time.
Umโฆ.hilarious?