You’re right. He did know. And as He knew about the plan (as God can’t be surprised by anything we we do), that’s where we get our free will from - the fact He could save us all doesn’t make Him any more God, and because He allows us to choose doesn’t make Him any less God.
"And as He knew about the plan (as God can’t be surprised by anything we we do), that’s where we get our free will from"
That sentence doesn't make sense. He knew about the plan, that's where we get free will from? The second clause is not supported by the first.
Additionally, if this supposed being knows everything anyone will do, then free will is impossible as everything has either already occurred, or will occur according to a set plan. Not to mention if our decisions are not affected by previous experiences (determinism) then what are we left with, absolute random action and choice? I don't believe this has ever been demonstrated.
I don't believe, without (very) loose interpretation, there is anything in scripture that would suggest this god gave anyone free will. That's just a convenient scapegoat some apologist cobbled together to try and address the problem of evil. And if I am mistaken, then we are still left with a story pulled from a collection of 2k+ year old fan fiction with absolutely no empirical evidence to back it up. Essentially "Cool story, bro."
If I may use an analogy. If Dan Greaney (writer of The Simpsons episode “Bart to the Future”) knew the plan that Donald Trump would become US President, does that mean that all those who voted against him, were not acting of their own free will?
If we didn’t have free will (because we knew exactly what happens to us when life on earth ends), there’d be no reason for a Saviour…nothing to save us from.
But, we have someone who loved the entire human race so much that - through the sacrifice of a life, and obedience to take on a debt that we couldn’t afford to pay - we get to choose how our stories end.
Because the action of the first man’s life caused eternal death, the sacrifice of another man’s death enabled eternal life.
So, what if faith feels risky, because it actually IS?
At some point, you’re gonna have to be faithful enough to find out.
I’d like to ask you, if there is indeed the problem of evil, what is the source of your morality if there is no God? (Ie. What makes things like murder wrong?)
…the part where humanity experiences its first plot twist. Right at the beginning of the story. Where humans are separated from God, banished from the Garden of Eden, and informed of what happens next. (Work, pain, disease, death etc). But, as with all “poisons”, there’s an antidote that was promised and revealed to John. A new heaven and earth in the time to come, where there would be no sickness, pain, or death.
Probably something like what Jim Jordan looked like in questioning Jack Smith the other day. Jordan looked like an incompetent demagogue (which he is), and Smith came across as a composed and able government employee (which HE is).
There are times when I wonder if people like Jordan realize how people like US see him (though I doubt he cares much).
Fun fact; the feathers on the ends of a bird's wings are called pinion feathers. Ravens have 6 of them, crows have 7. So the difference between a raven and a crow is really just a matter of a pinion.
Off topic: I can't describe the joy I feel from the combination of intellectual and comical comments from all of you. Being intellectually stimulated by both make my day. You peeps are the best!
On topic: People like this are why we can't have nice things. This guy with his weak mind can't understand the difference between a 'theory' backed by massive amounts of evidence and a myth backed by a book of fairytales. If we don't stop our slide into unreason, we are doomed to have to live under the rule of clowns like this for the foreseeable future. Lucky for me I'm fairly old and won't have to endure it too long, but I still feel sad for the young people who will never know this country as the advanced society it used to be. 😣
We need to teach the difference between opinion, hypothesis and theory, then proceed to more advance science like quantum mechanics, evolution, chemistry, etc.
"Accepted as fact" is not the same as FACT, at least not from where I sit. Believers can talk about the "facts" of the bible all they want, but they misuse the word, and I suspect purposefully in many cases. Ohm's Law is a demonstrable fact, as are Maxwell's Equations and a good deal of the discipline of physics. And as it comes to that, Newtonian physics still works, so long as you keep velocities well below 300,000 kps. Still, I will stipulate that SOME facts can alter with time. Once upon a time it was a fact that I was 5'11" tall. It's more like 5'10 now (I seem to have shrunk!).
“ Bullard describes evolution as a “government-mandated ideology about the origins of life,” as if there’s no science behind it. ”
Although I agree with the intent of Hemant’s column, this sticks in my craw, which evolved from a primitive stomach somewhere or other. evolution is not about the “origins of life”. That would be biopoesis, abiogenesis.
Evolution is the study of the diversification of life.
Ideology is a set of rules or principles that have nothing to do with science, experimentation, studies, and knowledge. Ideology exists apart from and despite facts, logic and experience.
Also, as I like to say, evolution isn’t one fact. It is billions of facts from dozens of disciplines, including disciplines that don’t include the study of life. Astronomy and geology tells us that the world and the universe are far older than creation myths allow. And that timeframe allows evolution to occur and exist
But the Hams of the world think they refute that by asking "were you there?" I'd like to send them to 30 CE Judea and see if they can find the Nazarene carpenter-turned-rabbi and his boys wandering around.
“”We must also stop this indoctrination of our kids using a theory that even its creator openly doubted.””
That’s how science works, idiot. We make observations, ask questions, create a hypothesis, experiment to collect data to support the hypothesis and try to disprove it. It’s all about doubt, that is why we never say anything is proven, we keep exploring and experimenting and collecting data, and in the hundred plus years of us exploring evolution everything we see points to evolution being the process in which the variety of life develops. It is supported in our experiments, our use of the understanding of evolution in multiple disciplines like virology, and by the fossil record.
Creationism/unintelligent design have zero evidence to back any of it up, only the claim in a tired book that no one ever actually reads or understands, that has been rewritten, cut and pasted and translated over and over again to get the message to fit the agendas. This is ridiculous , these tiny brained people thinking their ignorance is a basis to educate children are destroying our world.
Creationists could make this issue go away by proving their own point, which given a total lack of evidence will never happen. Darwin could be dead wrong, but that wouldn't make the Book of Geneses true. They always seem to operate under the assumption if Darwin can be called into question, they win by default. Never mind the countless other creation stories in the world. For the Biblical account of creation to be true, virtually everything we think we know about the life sciences, geology and cosmology have to be wrong, while some Bronze age goat herders who didn't know where the sun went at night got things exactly right.
Yes the false dichotomy is one part of their error. But the underlying error is in assuming science operates as an argument from authority - because *their* worldview is one long argument from authority. What they don't get is science is partly the process of running with everyone's best supported ideas while callously dropping their others. And that goes for Darwin, Einstein, Newton, you name it.
You would think if the Bible is true those truths would be confirmed by science as new discoveries are made. As it stands, no discovery of science has ever pointed to the truth of any religious dogma.
Over at Christian Post are commenters who keep insisting that every scientific discovery keeps proving the truth of the bible. I don’t bother engaging; I’m there for the amusement.
That's rich! I'd love to see how the bible substantiates solid state electronics, or inorganic chemistry. The ignorance of these people is sometimes positively frightening.
““Either we teach both ideas or we allow parents to teach their kids this important topic.””
Parents have always been allowed to teach their kids to be ignorant at home. You just do t get to dictate the schools can’t teach knowledge in the classroom because of your beliefs. So the compromise is and always has been, evolution in the classroom and religion at home.
I would be willing to teach about creationism and intelligent design alongside evolution. Here is the lesson: "Creationism is a religious belief and intelligent design is a science sounding version of creationism. Their strengths are in stunting intellectual growth. Their weaknesses are in their inability to comport with reality. Evolution is the foundation of all biology, nothing in biology makes any sense without it. Its strength is that it is true and supported by all the evidence. It has no weaknesses."
Since the bill would prohibit them from punishing me for teaching the strengths and weaknesses of either idea, that lesson should be perfectly acceptable.
Yeah, of course you believe with all your heart that life spontaneously generated from non-living matter.
You believing in a one great miracle right there let alone how do we increase information in the genome… you were arguing that information in the genome increases. Where have we ever seen the events of such an occurrence? Can you give one example where information is increasing in the genome?
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between abiogenesis and spontaneous generation. Spontaneous generation is the long disproven hypothesis that "degenerate" life forms (such as maggots) spontaneously appear in rotting flesh. Abiogenesis is the current collection of hypotheses that demonstrate the natural chemical progression from simple biochemical molecules to more complex systems of them, resulting in a population of organisms. Evolution happens once life is there.
And I can provide several different examples of "information" increasing in the genome. First, you need to tell me what you think information is.
Far more plausible that simple forms could evolve into complex ones over billions of years, leaving the remains of those earlier, simpler forms behind as evidence, than that a fantastically complex apex form- a god- could spring into being from no origin point at all and then poof the rest of everything into existence by sheer force of will... leaving behind no evidence whatsoever. Do y'all even listen to yourselves?
It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of knowing, and the reason why we know is because the field of physical chemistry shows us how less complex atomic and molecular structures can become more complex purely as a result of the environment and the proximity to the necessary elements and energies.
This is how science works. You might be bothered to learn a little something about it.
The usual answer is "Look around you, evidence of God is everywhere if you open your mind and truly want to see it".
Just don't look at the kids cancer wards, or Gaza, or the inherent violence and cruelty among most forms of life on the planet...something something demons something...
"I’ve never understood the idea that because Charles Darwin didn’t have total confirmation of his theory—to the point that he expressed doubts about it—it must be cast aside. That’s absurd because of the mountains of evidence we’ve had since his death confirming the reality of evolution. All the evidence points in that direction. None of the evidence points away from it. "
Yet christian halfwits have not a shred of proof for any of their claims of imaginary fiends, magic apples, talking snakes or transgender rib women, all while dismissing mountains of empirical data for evolutionary biology.
I would say it's doomed..... Unfortunately, that sentence is applicable too way too many things and on way too many levels these days. Even if he is successful, it's still doomed on the larger context of our society.
Yea, I hoped someone would point that out. But, devolution can be a response to an environment that encourages it. Would it therefore actually be evolution anyway? If becoming more stupid helps us cope with a world that no longer makes sense then perhaps we are evolving in a way to encourage the species to procreate.
Of course it's evolution. If less brainpower yields more and more successful offspring, then less brainpower is a positive adaptation and will likely spread through the gene pool.
I don't see any way that becoming less aware or less educated about the world around us helps. Stipulated that current events DO raise blood pressure and maybe a sense of hopelessness, but with that can also come the impetus to ACT.
Every wannabe-theocrat who tries to codify their religion in law is only providing stronger and stronger evidence against their deity's existence. If he were real, after all, he wouldn't need the likes of 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 to impose his will upon the rest of us 𝘧𝘰𝘳 him, now would he?
In today's class on Intelligent Design we examine the mechanics of biting the inside of your own cheek when trying to chew food to stay alive. We'll get started just as soon as I find my glasses.
"We must also stop this indoctrination of our kids using a theory that even its creator openly doubted.”
So teaching one chapter in a biology text is somehow indoctrination, but posting the ten commandments and requiring each student to have a bible is not indoctrination? Pull your head out of your ass Bullard.
How can they call the world and all there in "intelligently designed" when they are constantly praying to God to fix or change so much of it?
"Original sin destroyed God's perfect creation so we have to beg for him to fix it!"
But if God knows everything BEFORE it happens, didn't he know that original sin would affect his perfect creation?
Shh! We don't ask that question!
You’re right. He did know. And as He knew about the plan (as God can’t be surprised by anything we we do), that’s where we get our free will from - the fact He could save us all doesn’t make Him any more God, and because He allows us to choose doesn’t make Him any less God.
"And as He knew about the plan (as God can’t be surprised by anything we we do), that’s where we get our free will from"
That sentence doesn't make sense. He knew about the plan, that's where we get free will from? The second clause is not supported by the first.
Additionally, if this supposed being knows everything anyone will do, then free will is impossible as everything has either already occurred, or will occur according to a set plan. Not to mention if our decisions are not affected by previous experiences (determinism) then what are we left with, absolute random action and choice? I don't believe this has ever been demonstrated.
I don't believe, without (very) loose interpretation, there is anything in scripture that would suggest this god gave anyone free will. That's just a convenient scapegoat some apologist cobbled together to try and address the problem of evil. And if I am mistaken, then we are still left with a story pulled from a collection of 2k+ year old fan fiction with absolutely no empirical evidence to back it up. Essentially "Cool story, bro."
If I may use an analogy. If Dan Greaney (writer of The Simpsons episode “Bart to the Future”) knew the plan that Donald Trump would become US President, does that mean that all those who voted against him, were not acting of their own free will?
If we didn’t have free will (because we knew exactly what happens to us when life on earth ends), there’d be no reason for a Saviour…nothing to save us from.
But, we have someone who loved the entire human race so much that - through the sacrifice of a life, and obedience to take on a debt that we couldn’t afford to pay - we get to choose how our stories end.
Because the action of the first man’s life caused eternal death, the sacrifice of another man’s death enabled eternal life.
So, what if faith feels risky, because it actually IS?
At some point, you’re gonna have to be faithful enough to find out.
I’d like to ask you, if there is indeed the problem of evil, what is the source of your morality if there is no God? (Ie. What makes things like murder wrong?)
So... which part of the plan covers mosquitoes, ebola, and cancer? Asking for a friend.
…the part where humanity experiences its first plot twist. Right at the beginning of the story. Where humans are separated from God, banished from the Garden of Eden, and informed of what happens next. (Work, pain, disease, death etc). But, as with all “poisons”, there’s an antidote that was promised and revealed to John. A new heaven and earth in the time to come, where there would be no sickness, pain, or death.
And the fact that he doesn't exist doesn't change people telling me about him.
Oh lord, please change your perfect immutable and unchanging plan. I know it's the most wonderful plan there could ever possibly be but it sucks.
Maybe God doesn't have a plan, but only concepts of a plan.
Yeah, but just wait until two weeks from now...
Cognitive dissonance.
The idea of prayer comes from a time when the gods weren't all-powerful and all-knowing and YHWH could and did change his mind frequently.
How does intelligent design explain schizophrenia just to name one thing?
They blame sin for things like that.
That is such a lame response considering that their deity is supposedly so powerful, it could just override “sin” and make the universe perfect!
or demons
They think they know better than the omnipotent, omniscient god they worship. Makes perfect sense, right?
They'll make excuses. Do extreme mental gymnastics to claim it makes sense. But it never will.
Probably something like what Jim Jordan looked like in questioning Jack Smith the other day. Jordan looked like an incompetent demagogue (which he is), and Smith came across as a composed and able government employee (which HE is).
There are times when I wonder if people like Jordan realize how people like US see him (though I doubt he cares much).
He performs for his king, not for us.
Their omniscient god doesn’t know anything without their prayers.
Their omnipresent god can’t be anywhere with them forcing it everywhere.
The omnipotent god can’t do anything without them subverting government to pass unconstitutional laws.
I think they mean “intelligently designed” by an (invisible) white man who’s extremely insecure and jealous of Mother Nature’s powers.
I have a lovely chain saw sculpture of Raven on my front porch. I demand we teach the Raven origin myths!
What are you crowing about? 🐦⬛
He's demonstrating his talont.
Fun fact; the feathers on the ends of a bird's wings are called pinion feathers. Ravens have 6 of them, crows have 7. So the difference between a raven and a crow is really just a matter of a pinion.
:)
youtu.be/9CdVTCDdEwI
Is a pun thread taking off?
We're winging it, as always.
I can’t think of a pun so I’ll just egg you guys on.
The yolk's on us, then?
Raven, you say?
youtu.be/FHAyU1BMYGU
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/Raven_%28DC_Comics%29_Modern_001.png
Off topic: I can't describe the joy I feel from the combination of intellectual and comical comments from all of you. Being intellectually stimulated by both make my day. You peeps are the best!
On topic: People like this are why we can't have nice things. This guy with his weak mind can't understand the difference between a 'theory' backed by massive amounts of evidence and a myth backed by a book of fairytales. If we don't stop our slide into unreason, we are doomed to have to live under the rule of clowns like this for the foreseeable future. Lucky for me I'm fairly old and won't have to endure it too long, but I still feel sad for the young people who will never know this country as the advanced society it used to be. 😣
We need to teach the difference between opinion, hypothesis and theory, then proceed to more advance science like quantum mechanics, evolution, chemistry, etc.
They need to be taught what "fact" means first.
I rather like this:
𝐴 𝑓𝑎𝑐𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑎 𝑢𝑛𝑖𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑑𝑎𝑡𝑎 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑒𝑖𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑖𝑛 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑝𝑢𝑡𝑒 𝑜𝑟 𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑝𝑢𝑡𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑜𝑏𝑗𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑒.
-- Aron Ra, Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism
"𝐴 𝑓𝑎𝑐𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑎 𝑢𝑛𝑖𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑑𝑎𝑡𝑎 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑒𝑖𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑖𝑛 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑝𝑢𝑡𝑒 𝑜𝑟 𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑝𝑢𝑡𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑡 𝑖𝑠 𝑜𝑏𝑗𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑒."
This is wrong, facts are "contingent truth", and hence are defeasible.
It was accepted as fact that the sun orbited the earth, and that diseases were caused by miasmas. Both of these facts have been shown to be false.
"Accepted as fact" is not the same as FACT, at least not from where I sit. Believers can talk about the "facts" of the bible all they want, but they misuse the word, and I suspect purposefully in many cases. Ohm's Law is a demonstrable fact, as are Maxwell's Equations and a good deal of the discipline of physics. And as it comes to that, Newtonian physics still works, so long as you keep velocities well below 300,000 kps. Still, I will stipulate that SOME facts can alter with time. Once upon a time it was a fact that I was 5'11" tall. It's more like 5'10 now (I seem to have shrunk!).
All that said, I'll stick with Aron on this one.
"Ohm's Law is a demonstrable fact"
And can never be shown to be false? There are no devices for which it is not true, it has no dependence on other, physical factors>
Marc Lange deals "facts" and "laws of nature" in a number of publications, I would recommend his "An Introduction to the Philosophy of Physics" - https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/introduction-to-the-philosophy-of-physics-book-marc-lange-9780631225010
And most especially that there is no such thing as "alternative" facts.
Wanna play, Sen. Dullard? Let's play
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_myths
Teach them all.
“ Bullard describes evolution as a “government-mandated ideology about the origins of life,” as if there’s no science behind it. ”
Although I agree with the intent of Hemant’s column, this sticks in my craw, which evolved from a primitive stomach somewhere or other. evolution is not about the “origins of life”. That would be biopoesis, abiogenesis.
Evolution is the study of the diversification of life.
Ideology is a set of rules or principles that have nothing to do with science, experimentation, studies, and knowledge. Ideology exists apart from and despite facts, logic and experience.
Also, as I like to say, evolution isn’t one fact. It is billions of facts from dozens of disciplines, including disciplines that don’t include the study of life. Astronomy and geology tells us that the world and the universe are far older than creation myths allow. And that timeframe allows evolution to occur and exist
But the Hams of the world think they refute that by asking "were you there?" I'd like to send them to 30 CE Judea and see if they can find the Nazarene carpenter-turned-rabbi and his boys wandering around.
What I always say in response to that comment…
Oh, you’re saying that faith is a terrible way to know anything.
“”We must also stop this indoctrination of our kids using a theory that even its creator openly doubted.””
That’s how science works, idiot. We make observations, ask questions, create a hypothesis, experiment to collect data to support the hypothesis and try to disprove it. It’s all about doubt, that is why we never say anything is proven, we keep exploring and experimenting and collecting data, and in the hundred plus years of us exploring evolution everything we see points to evolution being the process in which the variety of life develops. It is supported in our experiments, our use of the understanding of evolution in multiple disciplines like virology, and by the fossil record.
Creationism/unintelligent design have zero evidence to back any of it up, only the claim in a tired book that no one ever actually reads or understands, that has been rewritten, cut and pasted and translated over and over again to get the message to fit the agendas. This is ridiculous , these tiny brained people thinking their ignorance is a basis to educate children are destroying our world.
Whenever xtians falsely accuse others of indoctrinating kids, they are projecting. It is they who "indoctrinate." It is they who are the groomers.
Considering how many of the clergy are arrested for crimes against children, it is a good bet Christians are the groomers and molesters!
Creationists could make this issue go away by proving their own point, which given a total lack of evidence will never happen. Darwin could be dead wrong, but that wouldn't make the Book of Geneses true. They always seem to operate under the assumption if Darwin can be called into question, they win by default. Never mind the countless other creation stories in the world. For the Biblical account of creation to be true, virtually everything we think we know about the life sciences, geology and cosmology have to be wrong, while some Bronze age goat herders who didn't know where the sun went at night got things exactly right.
𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑎𝑙𝑤𝑎𝑦𝑠 𝑠𝑒𝑒𝑚 𝑡𝑜 𝑜𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑎𝑠𝑠𝑢𝑚𝑝𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑖𝑓 𝐷𝑎𝑟𝑤𝑖𝑛 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑏𝑒 𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑒𝑑 𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑜 𝑞𝑢𝑒𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛, 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑤𝑖𝑛 𝑏𝑦 𝑑𝑒𝑓𝑎𝑢𝑙𝑡
Yes the false dichotomy is one part of their error. But the underlying error is in assuming science operates as an argument from authority - because *their* worldview is one long argument from authority. What they don't get is science is partly the process of running with everyone's best supported ideas while callously dropping their others. And that goes for Darwin, Einstein, Newton, you name it.
You would think if the Bible is true those truths would be confirmed by science as new discoveries are made. As it stands, no discovery of science has ever pointed to the truth of any religious dogma.
Over at Christian Post are commenters who keep insisting that every scientific discovery keeps proving the truth of the bible. I don’t bother engaging; I’m there for the amusement.
That's rich! I'd love to see how the bible substantiates solid state electronics, or inorganic chemistry. The ignorance of these people is sometimes positively frightening.
And still they believe their fantacy book is telling all the truth and nothing but the truth.
Yeesh, I read that three times before I realized it didn't say 'infancy book' for some strange reason.
Hmm. To be a fly on the wall when the biology teacher opens the creationism module with the Rig Veda.
What's wrong with Oklahomans that they keep electing morons?
Religion. It poisons everything.
Especially when it comes to education. Are they trying to topple New Mexico as dead last in education?
They share too much of a border with Texas, there must be bleed through or something.
That is due to all the inbreeding that occurs! Or due to them eating too much roadkill!
MAYBE BOTH!🤨
““Either we teach both ideas or we allow parents to teach their kids this important topic.””
Parents have always been allowed to teach their kids to be ignorant at home. You just do t get to dictate the schools can’t teach knowledge in the classroom because of your beliefs. So the compromise is and always has been, evolution in the classroom and religion at home.
Fuck outta here with your bullshit.
I would be willing to teach about creationism and intelligent design alongside evolution. Here is the lesson: "Creationism is a religious belief and intelligent design is a science sounding version of creationism. Their strengths are in stunting intellectual growth. Their weaknesses are in their inability to comport with reality. Evolution is the foundation of all biology, nothing in biology makes any sense without it. Its strength is that it is true and supported by all the evidence. It has no weaknesses."
Since the bill would prohibit them from punishing me for teaching the strengths and weaknesses of either idea, that lesson should be perfectly acceptable.
Yeah, of course you believe with all your heart that life spontaneously generated from non-living matter.
You believing in a one great miracle right there let alone how do we increase information in the genome… you were arguing that information in the genome increases. Where have we ever seen the events of such an occurrence? Can you give one example where information is increasing in the genome?
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between abiogenesis and spontaneous generation. Spontaneous generation is the long disproven hypothesis that "degenerate" life forms (such as maggots) spontaneously appear in rotting flesh. Abiogenesis is the current collection of hypotheses that demonstrate the natural chemical progression from simple biochemical molecules to more complex systems of them, resulting in a population of organisms. Evolution happens once life is there.
And I can provide several different examples of "information" increasing in the genome. First, you need to tell me what you think information is.
Far more plausible that simple forms could evolve into complex ones over billions of years, leaving the remains of those earlier, simpler forms behind as evidence, than that a fantastically complex apex form- a god- could spring into being from no origin point at all and then poof the rest of everything into existence by sheer force of will... leaving behind no evidence whatsoever. Do y'all even listen to yourselves?
I love this so much.
It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of knowing, and the reason why we know is because the field of physical chemistry shows us how less complex atomic and molecular structures can become more complex purely as a result of the environment and the proximity to the necessary elements and energies.
This is how science works. You might be bothered to learn a little something about it.
I doubt you even have a cogent definition of 'information'
Any time a duplication error happens (e.g. CTGA goes to CTGGA), the Shannon information increases.
You got proof that your imaginary friend created the universe! Even if you were to disprove evolution, you still have to prove your god did it!
Would you like some cake?
I thought you hand out pudding !🤨
I need to drop by the store to restock on pudding ingredients.
And you’re arguing magic tricks as opposed to decades of scientific research.
Got any tangible evidence of your god! I don’t want bible verses, but real concrete evidence!
The usual answer is "Look around you, evidence of God is everywhere if you open your mind and truly want to see it".
Just don't look at the kids cancer wards, or Gaza, or the inherent violence and cruelty among most forms of life on the planet...something something demons something...
That "look around you" claim by cristers is a logical fallacy (The Divine Fallacy/Argument from Incredulity).
"I’ve never understood the idea that because Charles Darwin didn’t have total confirmation of his theory—to the point that he expressed doubts about it—it must be cast aside. That’s absurd because of the mountains of evidence we’ve had since his death confirming the reality of evolution. All the evidence points in that direction. None of the evidence points away from it. "
Yet christian halfwits have not a shred of proof for any of their claims of imaginary fiends, magic apples, talking snakes or transgender rib women, all while dismissing mountains of empirical data for evolutionary biology.
A lightbulb just appeared above my head. 😁
I would say it's doomed..... Unfortunately, that sentence is applicable too way too many things and on way too many levels these days. Even if he is successful, it's still doomed on the larger context of our society.
Doom, despair and agony.
https://youtu.be/-IIKE9p5SEw?si=cn_Gvo7p3njEZId1
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CNIgt6yKgDM
20 years after Idiocracy came out we have become dumber as a nation. If that's not evolution...
More like devolution ... but you knew that! 😁
Yea, I hoped someone would point that out. But, devolution can be a response to an environment that encourages it. Would it therefore actually be evolution anyway? If becoming more stupid helps us cope with a world that no longer makes sense then perhaps we are evolving in a way to encourage the species to procreate.
Of course it's evolution. If less brainpower yields more and more successful offspring, then less brainpower is a positive adaptation and will likely spread through the gene pool.
I don't see any way that becoming less aware or less educated about the world around us helps. Stipulated that current events DO raise blood pressure and maybe a sense of hopelessness, but with that can also come the impetus to ACT.
Which we could really use right about now.
https://youtu.be/I3bF0N081TE
Every wannabe-theocrat who tries to codify their religion in law is only providing stronger and stronger evidence against their deity's existence. If he were real, after all, he wouldn't need the likes of 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 to impose his will upon the rest of us 𝘧𝘰𝘳 him, now would he?
In today's class on Intelligent Design we examine the mechanics of biting the inside of your own cheek when trying to chew food to stay alive. We'll get started just as soon as I find my glasses.
"We must also stop this indoctrination of our kids using a theory that even its creator openly doubted.”
So teaching one chapter in a biology text is somehow indoctrination, but posting the ten commandments and requiring each student to have a bible is not indoctrination? Pull your head out of your ass Bullard.