I recommend watching an old YouTube video entitled Sophia Investigates the Good News Clubs. Fear and trauma is a big part of the trauma-bonding that Christian cult leaders use on children. Decades ago the 700 Club was showing videos of Indians at the banks of the Ganges, dirty with flies on their faces, saying that they were poor because they didn't have Jesus. The implication for children is that, if you abandon Jesus, you will end up like this. It's a disgusting control tactic. It's not just "they didn't think about safety." This kind of thing is deliberate. Those kids were scared, their personal boundaries and right to say no were tested (GROOMING), and then the terrible experience was pushed as a good thing. This is deliberate and abusive.
Straight up dehumanization. Not telling the children these are people in need and we must help them. Telling children they are better than the homeless. Implying that helping the homeless is transactional, something to give them Jesus points, instead of simply being the right thing to do.
And even worse, turning the children loose among these desperate and potentially violent people with almost no adult supervision and the message that Jesus and a sandwich will make everything better.
His justification for all of this (with the full backing of the church)? "God led me". The arrogance of the true believer who fells he is right no matter what the evidence shows.
Why hasn't Webb been arrested and charged with child endangerment? There are at least 75 counts, one for each child. Make it 150, one per child per day. The only thing to decide here is who has jurisdiction, Alabama or Texas. Since crossing state lines was involved, perhaps it should be federal.
You said it: "straight to the dehumanization." Treating unhoused people, poor people, as if they are zoo animals, not actual people. This is so fucking typical. "Mission trips" to other countries do the same thing.
And then they bring the kids back to speak to the Elks and the Lions and the JayCees and the Rotary and the Kiwanis Clubs* and proudly tell them all about the good deeds they did for all those poor people on that island, or in the backwards country, or wherever the hell they went, and how it was all so "uplifting." And yes, they do mention things like "appreciating" having real floors in a real house instead of a thatched, dirt-floored hut, and so on. "Oh, we're soooooo lucky to be (white christian) Americans!"
A little OT - but if I had been required to write an essay for a college application, I would have been up a tree. With my provincial upbringing in a small southern Baptist town in the middle of nowhere, I didn't know a damned thing about anything except that I wanted to get the hell out of there and college was the only way to do it. I was kind of lucky that the college I went to didn't have that requirement. ;)
This made me think of something I see along the paved activity trail in my area. There are 6 or so spots along 40 miles of trail where the JWs regularly set up a brochure rack and have 2 or 3 people sitting there to engage anyone who will listen. I ride my bike on the trail 2 or 3 days a week and have done so for the last 12 years (since I retired). In all that time I have seen only one person who appears to have stopped to talk to the attendants. I have to think that the setup is more about earning "Jesus points" for the attendants than about actually recruiting new members.
Missionary work is more often about cutting cult members off from the rest of society than it is about winning converts. The leaders know that the overwhelming response to being pestered about Jesus by a random stranger is "fuck off and leave me alone"- the rejections are the point. Every time someone tells them to go away, it reinforces the 'ol persecution narrative, and then they get love-bombed by fellow cult members for being so "brave" by trying to spread the gospel to the wicked heathens who make up the rest of society.
And since that kind of programming-by-experience is so much more effective when you're young...
I’ve seen them at freeway rest stops, (where one needs to make a beeline for the bathroom after too much coffee). I’m there to do my business. Who finds Jesus in the bathroom?
JWs do that here too. Every time I have to walk past them I give them disgusted looks and occasionally subtly flip them off. And yeah, they get someone to engage with them maybe once in a blue moon. Everyone else just ignores them. I've also noticed that the JWs themselves often seem to be vulnerable people - disabled, using wheelchairs, that sort of thing. Which just makes it even more sussed.
It’s never about helping others, xtianity survives solely on conversion: bringing willing new chattel in so “god’s messengers” can gain power or money.
If it becomes federal under this regime, I don't believe it will get anywhere. Highly placed, incompetent Christian Nationalist MAGAts at every level would see to that.
On top of the safety issue, it's a clear bait and switch. Take a look at the Friday schedule: there is no 'service project' on it. It says 12-5 Beach. I'm guessing many of even the evangelical teens were mad as hell about being promised an afternoon at the beach and not getting it.
That's probably a couple hundred kids (...and their little siblings) who won't come back next year and have learned never to trust ministers at their word. Far more than the 3 homeless folks you temporarily converted. Nice job, Webb, you've earned a gold star in "how to increase nones and promote secular summer camps."
I'm more concerned about the safety issue involved. Homeless encampments are absolutely unhygenic and deplorable, filled with piles of trash, used drug paraphenalia, and possibly human excretions. Not to mention some of the people suffer from mental health issues or have criminal records.
Safety is the bigger issue. But it still sticks in my craw to imagine I send my kid to a beach summer camp and then finding out the organizers have no intention of actually letting the kids go to the beach. Self-centered liars.
The Terrible Texas Three of Wheels Abbott, Cabo Cruz and the inexecrable Ken Paxton will all tell you that night swimming after the beach comes to you is the best swimming of all.
“In a Facebook post on the final day of camp, the church posted the above picture and said “3 residents of tent city made the decision to follow Jesus.””
Seventy five children, seven or eight adults, multiple vans, and food, all for three “converts”!?!?
Even driving through to bolster a crappy sermon about blessings is depraved. These are people. Not a zoo, or some freak show. And you are so proud that three showed a little interest. That should be an indication that your “service” is shit. Most likely, the people in the tent city already have religion, and of those, the majority would already be Christian. Like it or not, you. Don’t. Have. To. Be. A. Missionary. In. The. United States. You certainly don’t have to be a missionary in Honduras, or any central or South American country and, really, most of the world. Most people have already heard the gospel, and have either accepted or rejected it. But that’s not good enough for you twits. You must be the one who convinces someone unfortunate to come into the fold. Because it’s not about saving anyone from strife, it’s about you collecting Jesus cash to pay your way into heaven. It’s about winning the champaign colored Cadillac for being the best MLM salesperson evar!
And you have no problem using people as pawns to do it. The children didn’t deserve to do this. Nor did they deserve the lesson if you had just drove around then left. The people living in the tent city didn’t deserve this. You weren’t there to feed them, you were there to manipulate them, treat them as spectacles, object lessons, and definitely not as people.
This is what Christianity is. A shitty MLM scheme that recruits children and perpetuates itself through manipulation. Now you can claim that mother wasn’t a true believer, and her response to your good deed was just the devil of the outside world showing you what a fallen place you live in, stay in the fold and you will be protected from those evil demons. (Insert Quora discussion here)
I haven’t even touched on the dangers you exposed those poor children to, or what dangers you created for the tent city and all who live there. God directed you!?! No, your ego blinded you.
I'm from the same city as these kids. I know where this church is. 30 years ago, I was one of those untrained kids being released to the streets of Underground Atlanta at midnight on New Year's Eve or at fishing tournaments in Lousiana to attempt to convert the homeless and drunk fishermen. The carelessness to just fling children at intoxicated people when they have no experience interacting with someone intoxicated, let alone having a productive conversation about the afterlife. I was cursed out many times by these people I was trying to convert and told my the youth director that it's what God has led me to do. The guilt was so heavy and so was my fear. I hated it so much. Incredibly dangerous situations for 12 year olds. I strongly blame these experiences for my social and general anxiety issues and I wish the parents of my youth group would have defended us like the mother in this story.
Thank you 🙏 that hits the nail on the head. I've experienced all of those feelings of making someone uncomfortable just to feel like an outsider who was being prosecuted then praised when back at the safety of the tribe. Its manipulative. My success rate in converting the "lost" was 0%. Converting was never the point.
I know of at least one person from the group I went on these missions with who is currently experiencing self-destructive grandious and spiritual psychosis that, I strongly believe, stems from these youth group days.
Interesting read and I agree, totally. In this scenario, would it be correct to interchange the word “Tribe” with “Cult?” It sure has the cult hallmarks.
Yes. I'm considered controversial now within my family and friends for being outspoken about the atrocities committed by the church (all of them). The power of turning a blind eye is strong within these cults.
All of the church’s “concern” amounts to bupkiss. They care about power and wealth and use their pasty white Jeebus for enforcement of their predatory practices.
For adults either. My sperm donor was a mean drunk and he wasn't as desperate as homeless people can be. His faith won't prevent webb from being targeted if he gets on the wrong side of someone there.
I wouldn't be surprised if he considered Mme Wingo's opinion irrelevant because she is a woman. DM's grandmother would have probably run after him with a broom or throw anything she could find at him. From what DM told me, she had a mean aim.
Webb may be dismissive, but if there is a repeat performance, he should damned well fear for his gonads, never mind the rest of his physiology. I've known moms who had no problem getting downright physical when their children were threatened.
DM went nuclear on one staff at my board school for telling me she wouldn't authorize me to go on weekend (even the director didn't have the authority to do do) and confronted my principal when DM was told "I was not good enough to retake 9th grade"*. He folded first.
* My good grades compensated my bad ones. I was good enough to go to high school, except I had too many options available and didn't know what to choose.
Most of the focus here is on the p-ass-tor putting the kids in his care in danger, and I completely agree that he should be roasted 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘭𝘺 for doing so, but since that's been well-covered already, I'm gonna just take a moment to recognize that it's not 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 the children he put in danger.
He also put every single person living in that encampment in danger.
Because his little stunt has put media attention on them, and not as part of a campaign to pressure the city into changing the way it treats homeless people, but as a one-and-done mission visit to hand out sandwiches and Jesus pamphlets and then bugger off and forget they exist. This wasn't done to raise awareness, or effect meaningful change. The cameras came, and then the cameras left.
Remind me- what, exactly, do the authorities generally 𝘥𝘰 to homeless encampments when they start drawing too many eyes, the moment those eyes look elsewhere for 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘭𝘰𝘯𝘨 𝘦𝘯𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩?
Yeah.
Those people are likely going to lose what little they have, in the near future if they haven't already, because some dipshit evangelist asshole used them as stage props to scare a bunch of children. I'm guessing it happens as soon as the story's off the front page of the local news. The kids, fortunately, don't seem to have come to any real harm (this time)- but the homeless people they were railroaded into proselytizing almost certainly will, and that deserves just as much attention.
I remember stories like that from the 90's. A homeless encampment would make the news for whatever reason and a day or two later there would be a raid on that camp by local LEOs, and whatever they left behind would be bulldozed away. One such encampment was out in the woods, not under a bridge in the city. The residents probably thought they were safer in the woods. I forget why it made the news, maybe some hunters stumbled across it or something. But the local sheriff's office showed up in force, rounded them up and destroyed the camp.
Volunteerism or short term missions where gullible x-tian teens go to developing world countries get me on my soapbox. Hubby travelled some of those countries for a x-tian charity and saw so many wrong things. An african school had its classrooms re-painted several times in a year cos the headteacher/pastor knew that the 'rich' teens who came over brought other goodies with them, like money, clothing, books, spectacles etc etc. Of course these kids were rich, the airfare alone was an eye-watering sum to local african folk, so good idea to keep in with them. Then there was the tanzanian church that crept out after dark to rebuild the wall that the visiting teens had built badly that day and they didn't want to offend them, or they wouldn't return bearing gifts. How about those who took trainers (sneakers) to african teens so they could look 'cool' whilst the donors wore top of the range ones themselves? Or the orphanage director whose family all put on lots of weight, noticed my hubs, they'd opened their orphanage two years previously when he'd visited - and the orphans hadn't gained a lot of weight. My favourite is the appeal in a UK church for bras to be taken to an Ghanian village by a boy scout troup....I'd love to have been there when those young teen boys handed them over to mortifed embarrassed girls there. All these are personal stories.....I hate, hate and abhor, the notion of short term missions!
Many years ago I was in such a village and one of the folk made a comment about missionaries. "They come to improve the church every year. We have a church. We have been Christian for over a hundred years. What we need is a better school and school supplies."
Anecdote: I was on holiday in the Faroe Islands recently - they're Danish. Our guide took us to a beautiful remote clifftop. He said he came there alone sometimes if he had a problem or was worried about something. His next sentence made me smile. He pointed a finger at the sky and said 'And, because I'm a x-tian, I ask my foreign friend up there for guidance.' I want to try that on those folk who claim jesus was as blond and blue eyed as that guide!
Had my CHILD been sent IN ANY HOMELESS CAMP, I woukd have gone berserk. And they lied about it, of course. As if it wasn't horrible enough, they sent KIDS TO TENT CITY! I'm Canadian and I've heard about it! IRRESPONSIBLE LE LIARS ARE IN CHARGE!
If I may be so bold, I would like to posit something here: Churches are lousy places for children.
Oh, they talk a great game, no doubt about it, but all too often when it comes to protecting vulnerable kids, they always seem to make a hash of it. This time, it's going to a dangerous section of a major metropolitan city, but this isn't the first time kids have been at-risk thanks to poor adult decisions at a church. Just what, two days ago(!?!?) Hemant's article was about yet another Christian leader possessing child pornography. I would guess this situation is the result of kids being exceptionally defenseless in church contexts and the way most churches fail any sort of self-policing, but that is a guess.
As a result, when I read an article telling me all about how kids were put at risk by a Christian-run camp, my reaction isn't surprise. It's more like 'Well, at least none of them got sexually assaulted. Must be a good day,' and I honestly cannot think of a more depressing view on the subject.
That’s really where we are at. It wasn’t as bad as it could have been because every day churches show us how awful they really are and how many people they victimize.
It's good that no one was assaulted, but I bet they learned a few new words. I certainly would have contributed one or two. At least to the adults in charge.
I have fond memories of 90% of Sunday School. The remaining 10% was really my teen years when they didn't want to engage with tough theological and philosophical questions, it was not anything to do with abuse.
But then again my churches were generally socially liberal with families I'd still consider friends. I.e. not jerkish. And I'm a straight white dude, so on the low part of the distribution of sexual harassment incidents from peers and adults.
That aside, I think in many cases sociology wags the church tail - i.e. good people make for good churches, bad people make for bad churches, and it's not always the case that a church corrupts good people into doing bad things. But I'm willing to concede that just because my personal experience was touching the front side of the elephant does not mean the elephant doesn't have an a$$hole.
Youth pastor/pedo: “Kids, today we are going to go preach to those who may be mentally ill and have lost their homes, livelihoods and everything else that we are better than them and that the only hope for them, is for us to admonish them to accept jesus too so they can have a better life.”
Kid: “Shouldn’t we bring them food, water or help them find shelter or medical care? How will preaching make their lives better?”
Youth pastor/pedo: ‘Helping them would be communism and jesus hates commies.”
Now I’ve seen it all. Poverty tourism. Ya better beleeeeeeeeeeeve, kids. Else ya gonna end up like this. And the not-at-all subtle message: these people live like this because they don’t have Jesus. So you better go give Jesus to them or or you’re gonna end up like them.
“ Kamryn was not given any evangelism training.” Exactly what kind of training do they get for evangelism? Here’s a tract ‘n’ talk to my daddy.” Because that’s all a kid can pretty much do. In fact, that’s all an adult can pretty much do.
Where is the evidence of anything? “God led me.” it’s not my fault. God didn’t give me the common sense that he gave a kumquat, but God led me because what else can I possibly say to excuse my stupidity and lack of concern. It’s all about me. It’s all about me. It’s all about me. Well it’s all about how much God loves me. Religious megalomania yet again. That’s the only God that leads them anywhere. God could lead those people to God if he truly chose to, just like God could protect little children being molested by youth pastors. But God is busy helping Donald Trump instead. There are only so many hours in eternity.
As our good Captain Cassidy put it so wonderfully yesterday : “That’s exactly why they’re so dishonest. Their beliefs say Jesus is doing something, but their reality reveals he isn’t doing anything at all.‘”
Jesus is only going to help these people if they ask nicely? They are this way because they don’t have enough Jeebus?
Thank you all for all of the nice compliments. Would it be declassé to note that all of those nice compliments would seem far more sincere if they were accompanied by a couple of pounds of 100% pure whole bean Kona?
Not that I have suggested that, I'm just asking questions.
Yep, one of my triad was from Alabama, but I met her in California, and she was very sweet and pretty normal. She ended going back to Alabama and now it's god this and jesus that.I don't recognize her online.
I recommend watching an old YouTube video entitled Sophia Investigates the Good News Clubs. Fear and trauma is a big part of the trauma-bonding that Christian cult leaders use on children. Decades ago the 700 Club was showing videos of Indians at the banks of the Ganges, dirty with flies on their faces, saying that they were poor because they didn't have Jesus. The implication for children is that, if you abandon Jesus, you will end up like this. It's a disgusting control tactic. It's not just "they didn't think about safety." This kind of thing is deliberate. Those kids were scared, their personal boundaries and right to say no were tested (GROOMING), and then the terrible experience was pushed as a good thing. This is deliberate and abusive.
Lying for Jesus to his own flock to force them to lie for Jesus. But that isn't the worst part.
𝐺𝑢𝑦𝑠, 𝐼 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡 𝑤𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑒𝑒 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡'𝑠 ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒. 𝐼 𝑤𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑒𝑒 ℎ𝑜𝑤 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒 𝑙𝑖𝑣𝑒. 𝐼 𝑛𝑒𝑒𝑑 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑡𝑜 𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑑 ℎ𝑜𝑤 𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑡𝑢𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑎𝑟𝑒. 𝑇ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑠 𝑤ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑖𝑡 𝑖𝑠, 𝑔𝑢𝑦𝑠.
Straight up dehumanization. Not telling the children these are people in need and we must help them. Telling children they are better than the homeless. Implying that helping the homeless is transactional, something to give them Jesus points, instead of simply being the right thing to do.
And even worse, turning the children loose among these desperate and potentially violent people with almost no adult supervision and the message that Jesus and a sandwich will make everything better.
His justification for all of this (with the full backing of the church)? "God led me". The arrogance of the true believer who fells he is right no matter what the evidence shows.
Why hasn't Webb been arrested and charged with child endangerment? There are at least 75 counts, one for each child. Make it 150, one per child per day. The only thing to decide here is who has jurisdiction, Alabama or Texas. Since crossing state lines was involved, perhaps it should be federal.
You said it: "straight to the dehumanization." Treating unhoused people, poor people, as if they are zoo animals, not actual people. This is so fucking typical. "Mission trips" to other countries do the same thing.
And then they bring the kids back to speak to the Elks and the Lions and the JayCees and the Rotary and the Kiwanis Clubs* and proudly tell them all about the good deeds they did for all those poor people on that island, or in the backwards country, or wherever the hell they went, and how it was all so "uplifting." And yes, they do mention things like "appreciating" having real floors in a real house instead of a thatched, dirt-floored hut, and so on. "Oh, we're soooooo lucky to be (white christian) Americans!"
* Saw this many times.
Don't forget the college application essay.
My niece referred to it as "how spending a lot of money seeing poor people made me a better person."
A little OT - but if I had been required to write an essay for a college application, I would have been up a tree. With my provincial upbringing in a small southern Baptist town in the middle of nowhere, I didn't know a damned thing about anything except that I wanted to get the hell out of there and college was the only way to do it. I was kind of lucky that the college I went to didn't have that requirement. ;)
> "something to give them Jesus points,"
This made me think of something I see along the paved activity trail in my area. There are 6 or so spots along 40 miles of trail where the JWs regularly set up a brochure rack and have 2 or 3 people sitting there to engage anyone who will listen. I ride my bike on the trail 2 or 3 days a week and have done so for the last 12 years (since I retired). In all that time I have seen only one person who appears to have stopped to talk to the attendants. I have to think that the setup is more about earning "Jesus points" for the attendants than about actually recruiting new members.
Missionary work is more often about cutting cult members off from the rest of society than it is about winning converts. The leaders know that the overwhelming response to being pestered about Jesus by a random stranger is "fuck off and leave me alone"- the rejections are the point. Every time someone tells them to go away, it reinforces the 'ol persecution narrative, and then they get love-bombed by fellow cult members for being so "brave" by trying to spread the gospel to the wicked heathens who make up the rest of society.
And since that kind of programming-by-experience is so much more effective when you're young...
I’ve seen them at freeway rest stops, (where one needs to make a beeline for the bathroom after too much coffee). I’m there to do my business. Who finds Jesus in the bathroom?
I need a bike.
I started riding again this summer after quite a few years. A lot of fun.
JWs do that here too. Every time I have to walk past them I give them disgusted looks and occasionally subtly flip them off. And yeah, they get someone to engage with them maybe once in a blue moon. Everyone else just ignores them. I've also noticed that the JWs themselves often seem to be vulnerable people - disabled, using wheelchairs, that sort of thing. Which just makes it even more sussed.
Can’t say we’re surprised. The whole religion’s built on a lie.
"God works in mysterious ways" has always been the ultimate cop-out for EVERY Christian.
Did you say “mysterious” or “delirious” Brianna?
It’s never about helping others, xtianity survives solely on conversion: bringing willing new chattel in so “god’s messengers” can gain power or money.
"𝐼 𝑛𝑒𝑒𝑑 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑡𝑜 𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑑 ℎ𝑜𝑤 𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑡𝑢𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑎𝑟𝑒."
Lemme just feed that through the thinly-veiled-threat-to-English translator:
"𝐼𝘧 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘥𝘰𝘯'𝘵 𝘣𝘦𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦, 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 you'll 𝘦𝘯𝘥 𝘶𝘱."
If it becomes federal under this regime, I don't believe it will get anywhere. Highly placed, incompetent Christian Nationalist MAGAts at every level would see to that.
On top of the safety issue, it's a clear bait and switch. Take a look at the Friday schedule: there is no 'service project' on it. It says 12-5 Beach. I'm guessing many of even the evangelical teens were mad as hell about being promised an afternoon at the beach and not getting it.
That's probably a couple hundred kids (...and their little siblings) who won't come back next year and have learned never to trust ministers at their word. Far more than the 3 homeless folks you temporarily converted. Nice job, Webb, you've earned a gold star in "how to increase nones and promote secular summer camps."
I'm more concerned about the safety issue involved. Homeless encampments are absolutely unhygenic and deplorable, filled with piles of trash, used drug paraphenalia, and possibly human excretions. Not to mention some of the people suffer from mental health issues or have criminal records.
Safety is the bigger issue. But it still sticks in my craw to imagine I send my kid to a beach summer camp and then finding out the organizers have no intention of actually letting the kids go to the beach. Self-centered liars.
I mean, it is Texas, they could just expect the beach to come to them… in the middle of the night.
The Terrible Texas Three of Wheels Abbott, Cabo Cruz and the inexecrable Ken Paxton will all tell you that night swimming after the beach comes to you is the best swimming of all.
You left out Dan Patrick. A clueless religious nut case if ever there was one.
The only Dan Patrick I know is a sportscaster from old ESPN days.
“In a Facebook post on the final day of camp, the church posted the above picture and said “3 residents of tent city made the decision to follow Jesus.””
Seventy five children, seven or eight adults, multiple vans, and food, all for three “converts”!?!?
Even driving through to bolster a crappy sermon about blessings is depraved. These are people. Not a zoo, or some freak show. And you are so proud that three showed a little interest. That should be an indication that your “service” is shit. Most likely, the people in the tent city already have religion, and of those, the majority would already be Christian. Like it or not, you. Don’t. Have. To. Be. A. Missionary. In. The. United States. You certainly don’t have to be a missionary in Honduras, or any central or South American country and, really, most of the world. Most people have already heard the gospel, and have either accepted or rejected it. But that’s not good enough for you twits. You must be the one who convinces someone unfortunate to come into the fold. Because it’s not about saving anyone from strife, it’s about you collecting Jesus cash to pay your way into heaven. It’s about winning the champaign colored Cadillac for being the best MLM salesperson evar!
And you have no problem using people as pawns to do it. The children didn’t deserve to do this. Nor did they deserve the lesson if you had just drove around then left. The people living in the tent city didn’t deserve this. You weren’t there to feed them, you were there to manipulate them, treat them as spectacles, object lessons, and definitely not as people.
This is what Christianity is. A shitty MLM scheme that recruits children and perpetuates itself through manipulation. Now you can claim that mother wasn’t a true believer, and her response to your good deed was just the devil of the outside world showing you what a fallen place you live in, stay in the fold and you will be protected from those evil demons. (Insert Quora discussion here)
I haven’t even touched on the dangers you exposed those poor children to, or what dangers you created for the tent city and all who live there. God directed you!?! No, your ego blinded you.
Those 3 “converts” all got an extra sammich. They then returned to their non-denominational lifestyle.
I was told Sentinel island weather is good all year long.
Just noticed this, I posted about John Chau and his brief, but terminal, adventures on North Sentinel about 30 mins ago. Great minds...
Some things worth being repeated.
Sentinel Island? I am not knowing.
They have a... 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘢𝘳 way of greeting unwelcome guests.
https://c.tenor.com/vDnVbNdoCisAAAAC/tenor.gif
An isolated tribe that doesn’t take kindly to guests
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/inside-story-john-allen-chaus-ill-fated-trip-remote-island-180970971/
"it’s not about saving anyone from strife, it’s about you collecting Jesus cash to pay your way into heaven"
🎯🎯🎯
As if homeless people don't already have it tough enough.
Jesus let them be homeless. How's that for a merciful, almighty deity?
Hell, Jesus himself was homeless for 3 years.
Sin is when you treat people as things, including yourself.
Treating the homeless as an object lesson and then as tally marks on your conversion list. Treating children as little free involuntary sales bots.
Good job, church.
Children are church chattel
And receptacles for their lust, sadly.
I'm from the same city as these kids. I know where this church is. 30 years ago, I was one of those untrained kids being released to the streets of Underground Atlanta at midnight on New Year's Eve or at fishing tournaments in Lousiana to attempt to convert the homeless and drunk fishermen. The carelessness to just fling children at intoxicated people when they have no experience interacting with someone intoxicated, let alone having a productive conversation about the afterlife. I was cursed out many times by these people I was trying to convert and told my the youth director that it's what God has led me to do. The guilt was so heavy and so was my fear. I hated it so much. Incredibly dangerous situations for 12 year olds. I strongly blame these experiences for my social and general anxiety issues and I wish the parents of my youth group would have defended us like the mother in this story.
This is the quora link I mentioned in my comment. I think it makes sense to post on your comment more since you have felt the brunt of the situation.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/edd2d053fe68ced33479baa3d1640d5c015a7d4e7ba3aef240799208094886fc.png
They sent you there not to convert others, but to convince you to stick around.
Thank you 🙏 that hits the nail on the head. I've experienced all of those feelings of making someone uncomfortable just to feel like an outsider who was being prosecuted then praised when back at the safety of the tribe. Its manipulative. My success rate in converting the "lost" was 0%. Converting was never the point.
I know of at least one person from the group I went on these missions with who is currently experiencing self-destructive grandious and spiritual psychosis that, I strongly believe, stems from these youth group days.
Interesting read and I agree, totally. In this scenario, would it be correct to interchange the word “Tribe” with “Cult?” It sure has the cult hallmarks.
Did you remove yourself from the hunting grounds safely?
Yes. I'm considered controversial now within my family and friends for being outspoken about the atrocities committed by the church (all of them). The power of turning a blind eye is strong within these cults.
That’s when you know you are 💯 percent correct, Welcome to the Cave. Well done.
None of the adults involved should be allowed to work with children EVER AGAIN.
But you know that they will be and no meaningful action will be taken over what happened.
It is becoming more and more clear that a lot of churches are not safe spaces for children.
All of the church’s “concern” amounts to bupkiss. They care about power and wealth and use their pasty white Jeebus for enforcement of their predatory practices.
For adults either. My sperm donor was a mean drunk and he wasn't as desperate as homeless people can be. His faith won't prevent webb from being targeted if he gets on the wrong side of someone there.
If Webb learned ANYTHING from his contretemps with Wingo, it should have been this:
Do NOT Fuck With A Mom or MOM'S KID!!!
I wouldn't be surprised if he considered Mme Wingo's opinion irrelevant because she is a woman. DM's grandmother would have probably run after him with a broom or throw anything she could find at him. From what DM told me, she had a mean aim.
Webb may be dismissive, but if there is a repeat performance, he should damned well fear for his gonads, never mind the rest of his physiology. I've known moms who had no problem getting downright physical when their children were threatened.
Verb sap, Mikey.
I may have known one 😇
DM went nuclear on one staff at my board school for telling me she wouldn't authorize me to go on weekend (even the director didn't have the authority to do do) and confronted my principal when DM was told "I was not good enough to retake 9th grade"*. He folded first.
* My good grades compensated my bad ones. I was good enough to go to high school, except I had too many options available and didn't know what to choose.
Most of the focus here is on the p-ass-tor putting the kids in his care in danger, and I completely agree that he should be roasted 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘭𝘺 for doing so, but since that's been well-covered already, I'm gonna just take a moment to recognize that it's not 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 the children he put in danger.
He also put every single person living in that encampment in danger.
Because his little stunt has put media attention on them, and not as part of a campaign to pressure the city into changing the way it treats homeless people, but as a one-and-done mission visit to hand out sandwiches and Jesus pamphlets and then bugger off and forget they exist. This wasn't done to raise awareness, or effect meaningful change. The cameras came, and then the cameras left.
Remind me- what, exactly, do the authorities generally 𝘥𝘰 to homeless encampments when they start drawing too many eyes, the moment those eyes look elsewhere for 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘭𝘰𝘯𝘨 𝘦𝘯𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩?
Yeah.
Those people are likely going to lose what little they have, in the near future if they haven't already, because some dipshit evangelist asshole used them as stage props to scare a bunch of children. I'm guessing it happens as soon as the story's off the front page of the local news. The kids, fortunately, don't seem to have come to any real harm (this time)- but the homeless people they were railroaded into proselytizing almost certainly will, and that deserves just as much attention.
I remember stories like that from the 90's. A homeless encampment would make the news for whatever reason and a day or two later there would be a raid on that camp by local LEOs, and whatever they left behind would be bulldozed away. One such encampment was out in the woods, not under a bridge in the city. The residents probably thought they were safer in the woods. I forget why it made the news, maybe some hunters stumbled across it or something. But the local sheriff's office showed up in force, rounded them up and destroyed the camp.
Volunteerism or short term missions where gullible x-tian teens go to developing world countries get me on my soapbox. Hubby travelled some of those countries for a x-tian charity and saw so many wrong things. An african school had its classrooms re-painted several times in a year cos the headteacher/pastor knew that the 'rich' teens who came over brought other goodies with them, like money, clothing, books, spectacles etc etc. Of course these kids were rich, the airfare alone was an eye-watering sum to local african folk, so good idea to keep in with them. Then there was the tanzanian church that crept out after dark to rebuild the wall that the visiting teens had built badly that day and they didn't want to offend them, or they wouldn't return bearing gifts. How about those who took trainers (sneakers) to african teens so they could look 'cool' whilst the donors wore top of the range ones themselves? Or the orphanage director whose family all put on lots of weight, noticed my hubs, they'd opened their orphanage two years previously when he'd visited - and the orphans hadn't gained a lot of weight. My favourite is the appeal in a UK church for bras to be taken to an Ghanian village by a boy scout troup....I'd love to have been there when those young teen boys handed them over to mortifed embarrassed girls there. All these are personal stories.....I hate, hate and abhor, the notion of short term missions!
Many years ago I was in such a village and one of the folk made a comment about missionaries. "They come to improve the church every year. We have a church. We have been Christian for over a hundred years. What we need is a better school and school supplies."
I once heard Kip Tiernan quote a native Hawaiian.
"The missionaries came to Hawaii to do good and they did very well indeed."
I take it their only knowledge of Africans was the topless native women they masturbated over in the old National Geographics?
Bet they don't realize that Egyptians are Africans too.
I know they don’t, I have seen idiots arguing they were white.
Just like Jesus! 🤪
Anecdote: I was on holiday in the Faroe Islands recently - they're Danish. Our guide took us to a beautiful remote clifftop. He said he came there alone sometimes if he had a problem or was worried about something. His next sentence made me smile. He pointed a finger at the sky and said 'And, because I'm a x-tian, I ask my foreign friend up there for guidance.' I want to try that on those folk who claim jesus was as blond and blue eyed as that guide!
Had my CHILD been sent IN ANY HOMELESS CAMP, I woukd have gone berserk. And they lied about it, of course. As if it wasn't horrible enough, they sent KIDS TO TENT CITY! I'm Canadian and I've heard about it! IRRESPONSIBLE LE LIARS ARE IN CHARGE!
"IRRESPONSIBLE LE LIARS ARE IN CHARGE!"
It's called church, so yes.
If I may be so bold, I would like to posit something here: Churches are lousy places for children.
Oh, they talk a great game, no doubt about it, but all too often when it comes to protecting vulnerable kids, they always seem to make a hash of it. This time, it's going to a dangerous section of a major metropolitan city, but this isn't the first time kids have been at-risk thanks to poor adult decisions at a church. Just what, two days ago(!?!?) Hemant's article was about yet another Christian leader possessing child pornography. I would guess this situation is the result of kids being exceptionally defenseless in church contexts and the way most churches fail any sort of self-policing, but that is a guess.
As a result, when I read an article telling me all about how kids were put at risk by a Christian-run camp, my reaction isn't surprise. It's more like 'Well, at least none of them got sexually assaulted. Must be a good day,' and I honestly cannot think of a more depressing view on the subject.
That’s really where we are at. It wasn’t as bad as it could have been because every day churches show us how awful they really are and how many people they victimize.
It's good that no one was assaulted, but I bet they learned a few new words. I certainly would have contributed one or two. At least to the adults in charge.
Depends on the church.
I have fond memories of 90% of Sunday School. The remaining 10% was really my teen years when they didn't want to engage with tough theological and philosophical questions, it was not anything to do with abuse.
But then again my churches were generally socially liberal with families I'd still consider friends. I.e. not jerkish. And I'm a straight white dude, so on the low part of the distribution of sexual harassment incidents from peers and adults.
That aside, I think in many cases sociology wags the church tail - i.e. good people make for good churches, bad people make for bad churches, and it's not always the case that a church corrupts good people into doing bad things. But I'm willing to concede that just because my personal experience was touching the front side of the elephant does not mean the elephant doesn't have an a$$hole.
Youth pastor/pedo: “Kids, today we are going to go preach to those who may be mentally ill and have lost their homes, livelihoods and everything else that we are better than them and that the only hope for them, is for us to admonish them to accept jesus too so they can have a better life.”
Kid: “Shouldn’t we bring them food, water or help them find shelter or medical care? How will preaching make their lives better?”
Youth pastor/pedo: ‘Helping them would be communism and jesus hates commies.”
" Youth pastor/pedo: ‘Helping them would be communism and jesus hates commies.” "
That so fucking nails it right there.
First cuppa. Yadda yadda. Many thoughts.
I don’t care if it rains or freezes
As long as I got my plastic Jizzus
Sitting on the dash of my car.
Now I’ve seen it all. Poverty tourism. Ya better beleeeeeeeeeeeve, kids. Else ya gonna end up like this. And the not-at-all subtle message: these people live like this because they don’t have Jesus. So you better go give Jesus to them or or you’re gonna end up like them.
“ Kamryn was not given any evangelism training.” Exactly what kind of training do they get for evangelism? Here’s a tract ‘n’ talk to my daddy.” Because that’s all a kid can pretty much do. In fact, that’s all an adult can pretty much do.
Where is the evidence of anything? “God led me.” it’s not my fault. God didn’t give me the common sense that he gave a kumquat, but God led me because what else can I possibly say to excuse my stupidity and lack of concern. It’s all about me. It’s all about me. It’s all about me. Well it’s all about how much God loves me. Religious megalomania yet again. That’s the only God that leads them anywhere. God could lead those people to God if he truly chose to, just like God could protect little children being molested by youth pastors. But God is busy helping Donald Trump instead. There are only so many hours in eternity.
As our good Captain Cassidy put it so wonderfully yesterday : “That’s exactly why they’re so dishonest. Their beliefs say Jesus is doing something, but their reality reveals he isn’t doing anything at all.‘”
Jesus is only going to help these people if they ask nicely? They are this way because they don’t have enough Jeebus?
One of these day, you will post after your second cup of coffee and we will all leave from here in disgust because you are Nobel prize level 😁
In my humble desire to serve, that’s why I always write on my 1st cup of coffee. I don’t wanna ruin it for anyone.
But enough about me.😘🧐🤪🤨
*Bows in your general direction.*
Not so much disgust as awe. But I guess that's what you really meant.
It is a worry if he is this clever, while barely caffeinated! I tend to communicate in grunts until caffeine kicks in.
That was a great cup of joe for you, Ben, cuz you’re en fuego this morning.
Awwwww. Thanks.
Thank you all for all of the nice compliments. Would it be declassé to note that all of those nice compliments would seem far more sincere if they were accompanied by a couple of pounds of 100% pure whole bean Kona?
Not that I have suggested that, I'm just asking questions.
Somebody wasn't thinking of the children.
Well, waddaya know? It was adult Christians. Again.
Sure weren't no drag queen! 😁
"An Alabama church...." Those words always precede a description of some repulsive action.
😂 Nothing good ever comes after those words.
Can confirm.
Yep, one of my triad was from Alabama, but I met her in California, and she was very sweet and pretty normal. She ended going back to Alabama and now it's god this and jesus that.I don't recognize her online.
Don't judge a book by its cover...except when it's The Bible.
Akin to "A Florida man" always preceding something monumentally stupid and/or bizarre.