I for one would be more than happy to see churches out of the hospital business all together. I would make an exception for religious universities who operate a medical school, but that's it. In addition to having an utterly irrational view of human sexuality, the Catholic Church puts more value on a tiny cluster of non-viable cells than they do the life of the mother. Organized religion is a millstone around the neck of humanity and it has contributed far more evil than good to the world.
He would know he's the one who made a deal with the RCC to provide cannon fodder for his armies.
"It comes as a shock to most people that the Catholic Church’s fierce opposition to abortion was not always what it is today, because the Church pretends that its position on pregnancy termination has been based on a “right to life” and has remained unchanged for 2000 years. Poppycock. In fact, it has varied continually over the course of history, with no unanimous opinion on the subject at any one time.
In 400 C. E., Augustine expressed the then-mainstream view that early abortion required penance only for any sexual aspect of a sin, not as homicide; 800 years later Thomas Aquinas substantially agreed. (Pssst: the Church made them both saints.)
Between 1198 and 1216, Pope Innocent III ruled abortion as “not irregular” if the fetus was not “vivified” or ”animated”; animation was then considered 80 days for a female and 40 days for a male—male fetuses apparently could develop faster then slow-poke female ones. Oddly, it has never been explained how anyone in the 12th century could tell sex differences in the womb. Or was there some early version of ultrasound back then that historians somehow missed?
Pope Sixtus V forbade all abortions in 1588, but in 1591 Pope Gregory XIV rescinded that order, and reestablished permission to abort, this time equalizing things a bit: up to 40 days for either a male or a female fetus.
Antoninus, Archbishop of Florence (also now sanctified), was a 15th century Dominican who wrote a major treatise on abortion, in which he taught that early abortion to save a woman’s life was moral.
Thomas Sanchez a 17th-century Jesuit, noted that all his Catholic theologian contemporaries justified abortion to save the life of the woman.
It was as late as 1869—only about a century and a half ago—that Pope Pious IX ruled all abortion murder and defined it as excommunicable.
And therein, my friends, lies a tale.
Napoleon III was gravely concerned that the birth rate had been dropping and that France would face a serious depletion of soldiers for its wars and colonizations. Pius IX, for his part, had long yearned to pass a doctrine of papal infallibility—but had faced opposition from within the church as well as from external kings, czars, and the like. But Napoleon was an emperor.
So the two struck a deal.
In return for Napoleon’s powerful support for papal infallibility, Pius would change the Church’s regulation of abortion—which at that time forbade the procedure only after quickening, at about three months. But Pius, a shrewd bargainer, played hard to get. So Napoleon threw in a further inducement—that all teaching positions in French schools would thereafter be filled by the Church.
Done.
Napoléon would get his huge crop of babies to grow into cannon fodder, because the Vatican would outlaw all abortion. In return, Pious and all popes after him would get their infallibility plus Roman Catholic control of French children’s minds (and those of kids in colonies around the world) for generations to come. Women’s deaths, by now in the millions because of this bargain, would pay the price. But hey, the art of the deal."
Because there are some very good ones. Actually there aren't any bad medical schools in this country. Some may be better than others but they all go through the same accreditation process.
I don’t have a problem with them providing medical care, but they need to provide emergency abortive care when needed. The churches need to reevaluate women’s healthcare as a right. Otherwise they will eventually lose people in their communities
It did far more than that. Catholic dogma ran over common sense, decency, and the doctors ' Hippocratic oath, never mind very nearly stepping on Ms Nusslock's LIFE. I find it unfortunate that the hospital only saw reason after being threatened with a lawsuit from the state of California. Because of that, I think follow-up and considerable scrutiny on that and other Catholic hospitals is not only desirable but mandatory.
The agreement as outlined in this article is only temporary. It damned well ought to be permanent.
Hey, threaten Catholic’s money and dogma goes out the window. They’ve been selling out for money for centuries. As long as they keep power and enough flock to fleece, they’ll sell pieces of their souls, every time. Male bishops (some closeted gays?) making hospital rules for women’s health, against the women’s health, over doctors expertise! How mighty Catholic, religious and un-‘c’hristian of them! SNAFU & Deja vu all over again! FYI, I was raised & confirmed Catholic, an altar boy ‘til 16 and have been an atheist since 18-19 yrs of age. I’m in my mid 60’s.
I was raised Catholic and I don’t ever remember believing in Gods. Went through first communion and confirmation, saw them as rituals I never connected them to anything spiritual. Oddly what sticks in my mind, my confirmation Bible had a secret compartment, that I thought was cool.
Not sure what closeted homosexuals have to do with anything, I’m sure the priesthood has “closeted” lots of kinds of people. At one time I think becoming a priest when your society was demanding you got married was a way out for gays, I don’t know if it’s like that anymore.
I had gay friends who became priests. They chose celibacy over risk being exposed or coming out. Not acceptable at the time. One rise to be a bishop. I added this in my comment because when I knew him, even he would say he had no business telling women what they should do with their own bodies or that priests/the church’s opinion should take precedence over women and doctors decisions on her health.
I made a colleague a retirement gift by cutting a hole in a book to hold a pint-sized liquor bottle. Gave him the book with the bottle. The book had to be bigger than I thought and I wanted a truly boring subject. Also, it took me HOURS to cut out the hole. I had to clamp the pages and could cut only a few pages at a time. I wanted the hole to be the shape of the bottle. Which meant curves. He really appreciated it and I’m never doing that again.
Imagine the resolution of this case if Anna Nusslock lived in a state where the AG wasn't willing to take on the catholic church and force it to abide by state law. Oh, that's right. We don't have to imagine. We can look at Texas and Georgia and likely many other red states where legislators have put themselves between a woman and her doctor and those women have DIED.
Neither the catholic church nor any other 'pro-life' loudmouth give a damn about LIFE. They only give a damn about fetuses.
It’s a good thing this didn’t go to trial, because if it did the hospital could appeal to the SCROTUS and get legal protection from having to provide emergency care. Where was it that SCROTUS allowed hospitals to deny emergency abortions? Texas?
It’s already precedent. Women’s lives do not matter to the GOP. Never have, never will.
Now watch catholic hospitals: refuse to hire doctors trained in abortion protocols, support staff with same protocol certifications, and refuse to stock necessary equipment and supplies. Betcha.
And when that happens, their ER facilities need to be listed as private, No Longer Public, and lose whatever funding they're eligible for.
Any hospital which does that should have to pay for the airlift themselves. Let them shell out hundreds of thousands per undone procedure if they go that route.
I guess I should phrase that as: CA legislators, modify your law so that...
Something that's already happening is that in states with abortion restrictions it's becoming harder to get trained in abortion care, indeed in ob/gyn in general, because neither hospitals nor universities offer it. Meanwhile, schools and hospitals in other areas only have so many training slots available.
The combined effect is that over time the number of people trained in reproductive care may become too small for the need and you could have a situation where someone wants or needs an abortion and there is no one around where they are who knows how to do it properly.
Thanks, you summed it up in the sentence, “ The Catholic hospital refused to perform the procedure because it prioritized almost-dead fetuses over living women.”. I don’t understand how the religious zealotry of an organization (thinking Hobby Lobby and Catholic orders here) trump the rights and health of the individual but I guess I don’t have the wisdom of the Supreme Court in this matter./S
You don't own hospitals, either. Catholics in charge of public health care is a bad, bad, bad, bad bad bad bad idea! And this story is a good example of why that's so.
The conditioning pro-birthers have received for decades has made them brain dead when it comes to this issue. They will betray their families, their country, every teaching of their “Savior”
Jesus Christ, when it comes to a fertilized egg that’s why corrupt politicians swarm around them like flies. They know that if they shoot somebody on fifth Avenue these voters won’t care.
Thanks for mentioning Hobby Lobby (an on-paper-only corporate entity that is presumed by our Subprime Court to have both its own brain and its own conscience), and don't forget Chick-fil-A.
Catholic hospital does the right thing only after legal threats, and in a way that lets them say "we didn't do anything wrong" when they obviously did. That's the only reason they agreed to settle and comply with the law. And of course, there will still be some who cry "persecution". Has Bildo got his fax machine warmed up yet?
Chimed in just after 6:30AM, my time. Mostly just upvoting until I coud get around to commenting. Took forever to see Straw's inquiry. Otherwise I might have respoded much sooner.
When Hemant first wrote about this awful situation, I mentioned that I had family members who used to live in the area. They love it there and would like to go back someday. I counseled they should have kids first so they don’t have to take any chances with that shit of a hospital, agreement or not.
That's fine for the State and future patients, but does Ms. Nusslock have her own civil suit going, and if so, what's the the status? I frankly hope she's suing the pants off them for what they put her through.
Almost 30 years ago my bride and I were being treated for infertility. We had gone thru all the cheaper but less effective options that insurance made us do first. IVF wasn’t covered. However, Maryland had enacted a law that said insurance had to cover one IVF if 6 conditions were present. First they tried stalling (we are evaluating your case). Me: “That should take about 5 minutes. Get going. There are only a couple days every month when this can done. You’ve heard of the menstrual cycle, right?” They authorize the procedure. We have it done (unsuccessful). Then the insurance company decides that they should not have authorized it. We didn’t meet one of the 6 conditions. And they said “An authorization is not a promise to pay.”
We knew litigation lawyers socially from two firms. We tell our friends. Within days both firms offered to represent us pro bono. They were dying for the chance to establish case law that an authorization from an insurance company was indeed a promise to pay. I call the insurance company. They repeat their position. I ask to speak with a supervisor. I very politely explain that I live in a very liberal state with an insurance commission that routinely sides with consumers. I know this because I am a licensed insurance agent. And that 2 different law firms are ready to take our case pro bono. I gave them the names of the law firms. “Are you sure that your company wants to risk losing in court over authorization over a mere $6000?”
Just trying to keep my blood pressure in check and distract myself from the existential crisis relating to this story and the election. My family is dressed as a plague doctor and plague rats.
I wish I could post a picture but substack won’t let me. My daughter made her own plague doctor mask but we bought the rat costumes.
Anyhoo, just to keep on the derail train, I got a text telling me Biden thinks I’m trash, little does Trump know, I’m not the one he was talking about. And I agree, they’re all trash, especially the rotten orange shitgibbon. He also forgot the hundreds of times Trump himself has called not only those who don’t support him, but his most fervent supporters trash.
It's always okay for the GQP to use every adjective imaginable to demonize others; to make unfunny 'jokes.' Give them a dose of their own medicine and they whine and cry WHY ARE YOU BEING SO MEAN!?! Cripes, those hothouse flowers and their hypocrisy send my blood pressure soaring.
Like what? She’s already more active than most other candidates, has made more specific statements than most, and really far more effective than the orange menace. What more is she supposed to do?
I meant things like: what's her border policy different from Bidens'. What's her foreign policy different from Bidens'. She DOES have some differences, but she's not great at communicating them.
A few years ago we were Thoughts & Prayers. One of us had a white t-shirt with “prayers” written on it in a comic strip word balloon. And the other wore a black t-shirt with “thoughts”. I had printed on business card sized cards various thoughts and prayers. The thoughts mostly came from the Deepak Chopra simulator and I made up stupid prayers. (I’m praying for you……. Did it work?”). We went to a party and offered people thoughts and prayers. We would pull out a card, read it to them, and then give them the card. The Millennials at the party thought this was hilarious. The amusement level went down as the age of other partygoers went up.
We are well know among our family and friends for our family costumes. I usually craft them and we all work together to decide what we will be as a family. As the kids have gotten older, and after Covid, we’ve been less and less matching. Last year it was sort of a villain theme, daughter was her own version of Audrey II, she’s been making her own costumes the last couple years, and I made myself an Ursula costume and my hubs King Triton.
I’m going to keep asking this question until there is an answer and women can get actual bodily autonomy.
What is the point of denying services to women actively dying from their doomed pregnancies? Just because there’s still a heartbeat doesn’t mean the fetus will survive, especially if not aborting will kill the mother in a matter of hours or even days. Either way the fetus dies, and both ways, abortion or inaction, you are responsible for the death. There is no medical intervention that will save the fetus, not that the hospital tries to save it anyway. This is literally killing women unnecessarily. You don’t save the baby, you don’t avoid complicity, you just murder the pregnant person in the process of saving your own soul. What kind of god would reward that? One I wouldn’t want to worship, that’s for damn sure.
I want to believe that the mother’s death wasn’t the point, but it sure seems like that is exactly the point of this particular dogmatic policy. If she can’t bring a live child into the world (even if it is her second, third or even fifteenth) then she isn’t worthy of living. Completely ignoring the pregnant person’s agency as a complete human in and of herself.
This is the result of the Life Uber Alles attitude which the Catholic Church has historically taken, particularly since Paul VI issued his encyclical, 𝐻𝑢𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑎𝑒 𝑉𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑒, which condemned the use of any form of "artificial" birth control.
That the RCC is ridiculously inconsistent with the treatment of life AFTER it leaves the womb is beneath their notice.
The point is power and authority. To impose their view and social rules on others who do not want them. If they cannot be the state (much as they'd like to), then they will substitute for the state where state services are weak while at the same time donating money and using influence to elect representatives who will make the state weak.
So far as I know, the suffering is the actual point. The RCC places value on human suffering (provided it's not someone important, like a priest) and honestly believes that women in particular need to suffer due to being the 'daughters of Eve' and original sin. This is the RCC's longstanding policy; and even if Jesus himself showed up at the front door to the Vatican and told them to change it they'd probably refuse.
Why do you think they canonized Mother Theresa? She was completely on-brand for them, and never made a peep about pushing for better lives for women or any other 'uppity' groups.
How many have there been in Texas. I've lost count. The U.S. Congress is paralyzed on this issue and Republicans are stuck on the tiger's back. They'd lose most of their support if the caved on the issue, but they've driven off everybody else but the racists.
I for one would be more than happy to see churches out of the hospital business all together. I would make an exception for religious universities who operate a medical school, but that's it. In addition to having an utterly irrational view of human sexuality, the Catholic Church puts more value on a tiny cluster of non-viable cells than they do the life of the mother. Organized religion is a millstone around the neck of humanity and it has contributed far more evil than good to the world.
To quote Napoleon, religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich...
For a while. Eventually the guillotines come out.
A work colleague of mine jokingly advocates for bringing out the guillotines right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMHCw3RqulY
He would know he's the one who made a deal with the RCC to provide cannon fodder for his armies.
"It comes as a shock to most people that the Catholic Church’s fierce opposition to abortion was not always what it is today, because the Church pretends that its position on pregnancy termination has been based on a “right to life” and has remained unchanged for 2000 years. Poppycock. In fact, it has varied continually over the course of history, with no unanimous opinion on the subject at any one time.
In 400 C. E., Augustine expressed the then-mainstream view that early abortion required penance only for any sexual aspect of a sin, not as homicide; 800 years later Thomas Aquinas substantially agreed. (Pssst: the Church made them both saints.)
Between 1198 and 1216, Pope Innocent III ruled abortion as “not irregular” if the fetus was not “vivified” or ”animated”; animation was then considered 80 days for a female and 40 days for a male—male fetuses apparently could develop faster then slow-poke female ones. Oddly, it has never been explained how anyone in the 12th century could tell sex differences in the womb. Or was there some early version of ultrasound back then that historians somehow missed?
Pope Sixtus V forbade all abortions in 1588, but in 1591 Pope Gregory XIV rescinded that order, and reestablished permission to abort, this time equalizing things a bit: up to 40 days for either a male or a female fetus.
Antoninus, Archbishop of Florence (also now sanctified), was a 15th century Dominican who wrote a major treatise on abortion, in which he taught that early abortion to save a woman’s life was moral.
Thomas Sanchez a 17th-century Jesuit, noted that all his Catholic theologian contemporaries justified abortion to save the life of the woman.
It was as late as 1869—only about a century and a half ago—that Pope Pious IX ruled all abortion murder and defined it as excommunicable.
And therein, my friends, lies a tale.
Napoleon III was gravely concerned that the birth rate had been dropping and that France would face a serious depletion of soldiers for its wars and colonizations. Pius IX, for his part, had long yearned to pass a doctrine of papal infallibility—but had faced opposition from within the church as well as from external kings, czars, and the like. But Napoleon was an emperor.
So the two struck a deal.
In return for Napoleon’s powerful support for papal infallibility, Pius would change the Church’s regulation of abortion—which at that time forbade the procedure only after quickening, at about three months. But Pius, a shrewd bargainer, played hard to get. So Napoleon threw in a further inducement—that all teaching positions in French schools would thereafter be filled by the Church.
Done.
Napoléon would get his huge crop of babies to grow into cannon fodder, because the Vatican would outlaw all abortion. In return, Pious and all popes after him would get their infallibility plus Roman Catholic control of French children’s minds (and those of kids in colonies around the world) for generations to come. Women’s deaths, by now in the millions because of this bargain, would pay the price. But hey, the art of the deal."
https://www.robinmorgan.net/when-the-vatican-thought-abortion-was-moral/
I would not.
You’ve seen the hellhole that Christian Schools are. Why would you think a Christian “medical” “school” would be any less of a clusterfuck?
Because there are some very good ones. Actually there aren't any bad medical schools in this country. Some may be better than others but they all go through the same accreditation process.
I don’t have a problem with them providing medical care, but they need to provide emergency abortive care when needed. The churches need to reevaluate women’s healthcare as a right. Otherwise they will eventually lose people in their communities
"Dogma overrode expertise."
It did far more than that. Catholic dogma ran over common sense, decency, and the doctors ' Hippocratic oath, never mind very nearly stepping on Ms Nusslock's LIFE. I find it unfortunate that the hospital only saw reason after being threatened with a lawsuit from the state of California. Because of that, I think follow-up and considerable scrutiny on that and other Catholic hospitals is not only desirable but mandatory.
The agreement as outlined in this article is only temporary. It damned well ought to be permanent.
Hey, threaten Catholic’s money and dogma goes out the window. They’ve been selling out for money for centuries. As long as they keep power and enough flock to fleece, they’ll sell pieces of their souls, every time. Male bishops (some closeted gays?) making hospital rules for women’s health, against the women’s health, over doctors expertise! How mighty Catholic, religious and un-‘c’hristian of them! SNAFU & Deja vu all over again! FYI, I was raised & confirmed Catholic, an altar boy ‘til 16 and have been an atheist since 18-19 yrs of age. I’m in my mid 60’s.
I was raised Catholic and I don’t ever remember believing in Gods. Went through first communion and confirmation, saw them as rituals I never connected them to anything spiritual. Oddly what sticks in my mind, my confirmation Bible had a secret compartment, that I thought was cool.
Not sure what closeted homosexuals have to do with anything, I’m sure the priesthood has “closeted” lots of kinds of people. At one time I think becoming a priest when your society was demanding you got married was a way out for gays, I don’t know if it’s like that anymore.
I had gay friends who became priests. They chose celibacy over risk being exposed or coming out. Not acceptable at the time. One rise to be a bishop. I added this in my comment because when I knew him, even he would say he had no business telling women what they should do with their own bodies or that priests/the church’s opinion should take precedence over women and doctors decisions on her health.
A secret compartment? Do tell.
I made a colleague a retirement gift by cutting a hole in a book to hold a pint-sized liquor bottle. Gave him the book with the bottle. The book had to be bigger than I thought and I wanted a truly boring subject. Also, it took me HOURS to cut out the hole. I had to clamp the pages and could cut only a few pages at a time. I wanted the hole to be the shape of the bottle. Which meant curves. He really appreciated it and I’m never doing that again.
https://youtu.be/7Rwp43M2Y48
Stoopid me for having only clamps and a box cutter.
I'm just glad Ms. Nusslock lived in California and not Texas.
The fact that it's California means we can say "lives" instead of "lived".
Imagine the resolution of this case if Anna Nusslock lived in a state where the AG wasn't willing to take on the catholic church and force it to abide by state law. Oh, that's right. We don't have to imagine. We can look at Texas and Georgia and likely many other red states where legislators have put themselves between a woman and her doctor and those women have DIED.
Neither the catholic church nor any other 'pro-life' loudmouth give a damn about LIFE. They only give a damn about fetuses.
It’s a good thing this didn’t go to trial, because if it did the hospital could appeal to the SCROTUS and get legal protection from having to provide emergency care. Where was it that SCROTUS allowed hospitals to deny emergency abortions? Texas?
It’s already precedent. Women’s lives do not matter to the GOP. Never have, never will.
This is how trump plans to "protect" women whether they "like it or not".
For chrissakes, HE's what women need protecting from.
Couldn't agree more.
Called both us senators and informed them will never vote for another republican, or set foot in goddamned church again.
Preach, Val!
I’ve been calling that gang “pro-fetus” for years …
They only give a damn about subjugating women and trivializing their lives.
Blood and guts on the floor of a hospital. Unnecessary pain and suffering. Yet not a drag queen in sight. Unless you count the folks in cassocks....
Those guys don't count. Women aren't allowed to be priests, therefore cassocks are male garments.
I still think it’s fun to call them drag.
Now watch catholic hospitals: refuse to hire doctors trained in abortion protocols, support staff with same protocol certifications, and refuse to stock necessary equipment and supplies. Betcha.
And when that happens, their ER facilities need to be listed as private, No Longer Public, and lose whatever funding they're eligible for.
Any hospital which does that should have to pay for the airlift themselves. Let them shell out hundreds of thousands per undone procedure if they go that route.
I guess I should phrase that as: CA legislators, modify your law so that...
I love this idea!
Something that's already happening is that in states with abortion restrictions it's becoming harder to get trained in abortion care, indeed in ob/gyn in general, because neither hospitals nor universities offer it. Meanwhile, schools and hospitals in other areas only have so many training slots available.
The combined effect is that over time the number of people trained in reproductive care may become too small for the need and you could have a situation where someone wants or needs an abortion and there is no one around where they are who knows how to do it properly.
Edited to correct a typo.
Way to go, California! Drag those sanctimonious, sadistic shitheads into the 21st century, whether they like it or not.
They have a long way to go. The need to get them into the 18th first.
Too little, too late. I don't expect this to spread to other states. I do expect the SCOTUS to intervene and invalidate the lawsuit in some way.
Thanks, you summed it up in the sentence, “ The Catholic hospital refused to perform the procedure because it prioritized almost-dead fetuses over living women.”. I don’t understand how the religious zealotry of an organization (thinking Hobby Lobby and Catholic orders here) trump the rights and health of the individual but I guess I don’t have the wisdom of the Supreme Court in this matter./S
You don't own hospitals, either. Catholics in charge of public health care is a bad, bad, bad, bad bad bad bad idea! And this story is a good example of why that's so.
The conditioning pro-birthers have received for decades has made them brain dead when it comes to this issue. They will betray their families, their country, every teaching of their “Savior”
Jesus Christ, when it comes to a fertilized egg that’s why corrupt politicians swarm around them like flies. They know that if they shoot somebody on fifth Avenue these voters won’t care.
Thanks for mentioning Hobby Lobby (an on-paper-only corporate entity that is presumed by our Subprime Court to have both its own brain and its own conscience), and don't forget Chick-fil-A.
Catholic hospital does the right thing only after legal threats, and in a way that lets them say "we didn't do anything wrong" when they obviously did. That's the only reason they agreed to settle and comply with the law. And of course, there will still be some who cry "persecution". Has Bildo got his fax machine warmed up yet?
What I find interesting is that people get better results going to the media than the authorities.
What or who is Bildo?
Bill Donohue
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bill_Donohue
(opens with a quote by Hemant)
Beat ya to it by seconds. ;)
Oh, and Bildo's also Entry #109 in the Encyclopedia of American Loons
americanloons.blogspot.com/2010/11/109-bill-william-donohue.html
Probably because I hesitated over whether it was .org or .com
RationalWiki? Always org. I see that link address in my sleep. :)
Bill Donohue. Allow me...
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bill_Donohue
Wan't sure you were here.
Chimed in just after 6:30AM, my time. Mostly just upvoting until I coud get around to commenting. Took forever to see Straw's inquiry. Otherwise I might have respoded much sooner.
A (c)harming man opposed to women's and LGBTQI+ rights.
When Hemant first wrote about this awful situation, I mentioned that I had family members who used to live in the area. They love it there and would like to go back someday. I counseled they should have kids first so they don’t have to take any chances with that shit of a hospital, agreement or not.
They signed a piece of paper. Let's wait for the diocese's reaction. And I'm not hopeful for the next woman.
𝑃𝑟𝑜𝑣𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑆𝑡. 𝐽𝑜𝑠𝑒𝑝ℎ 𝐻𝑜𝑠𝑝𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑙 ℎ𝑎𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑤 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑑 𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑔𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑚𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝐵𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑎’𝑠 𝑜𝑓𝑓𝑖𝑐𝑒 𝑎𝑠 𝑡𝑜 ℎ𝑜𝑤 𝑡𝑜 𝑚𝑜𝑣𝑒 𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑤𝑎𝑟𝑑
That's fine for the State and future patients, but does Ms. Nusslock have her own civil suit going, and if so, what's the the status? I frankly hope she's suing the pants off them for what they put her through.
She can't if she's not rich.
Almost 30 years ago my bride and I were being treated for infertility. We had gone thru all the cheaper but less effective options that insurance made us do first. IVF wasn’t covered. However, Maryland had enacted a law that said insurance had to cover one IVF if 6 conditions were present. First they tried stalling (we are evaluating your case). Me: “That should take about 5 minutes. Get going. There are only a couple days every month when this can done. You’ve heard of the menstrual cycle, right?” They authorize the procedure. We have it done (unsuccessful). Then the insurance company decides that they should not have authorized it. We didn’t meet one of the 6 conditions. And they said “An authorization is not a promise to pay.”
We knew litigation lawyers socially from two firms. We tell our friends. Within days both firms offered to represent us pro bono. They were dying for the chance to establish case law that an authorization from an insurance company was indeed a promise to pay. I call the insurance company. They repeat their position. I ask to speak with a supervisor. I very politely explain that I live in a very liberal state with an insurance commission that routinely sides with consumers. I know this because I am a licensed insurance agent. And that 2 different law firms are ready to take our case pro bono. I gave them the names of the law firms. “Are you sure that your company wants to risk losing in court over authorization over a mere $6000?”
They paid up a couple days later.
We weren’t rich but we had social capital.
OT Happy Halloween!
Just trying to keep my blood pressure in check and distract myself from the existential crisis relating to this story and the election. My family is dressed as a plague doctor and plague rats.
I wish I could post a picture but substack won’t let me. My daughter made her own plague doctor mask but we bought the rat costumes.
Anyhoo, just to keep on the derail train, I got a text telling me Biden thinks I’m trash, little does Trump know, I’m not the one he was talking about. And I agree, they’re all trash, especially the rotten orange shitgibbon. He also forgot the hundreds of times Trump himself has called not only those who don’t support him, but his most fervent supporters trash.
It's always okay for the GQP to use every adjective imaginable to demonize others; to make unfunny 'jokes.' Give them a dose of their own medicine and they whine and cry WHY ARE YOU BEING SO MEAN!?! Cripes, those hothouse flowers and their hypocrisy send my blood pressure soaring.
https://static.tnn.in/thumb/msid-98611773,thumbsize-75656,width-1280,height-720,resizemode-75/98611773.jpg?quality=100
They sure know how to punch down but their skin is thinner than hot olive oil.
"My family is dressed as a plague doctor and plague rats."
Please tell me you didn't buy MAGAt hats. : )
Those are for the rats.
They still seem to think Biden is running, don't they?
Ah well, in fairness Harris could do more to distinguish herself.
Like what? She’s already more active than most other candidates, has made more specific statements than most, and really far more effective than the orange menace. What more is she supposed to do?
Grow a penis.
That wouldn't distinguish her from Biden lol.
I meant things like: what's her border policy different from Bidens'. What's her foreign policy different from Bidens'. She DOES have some differences, but she's not great at communicating them.
Really? How and why?
Poow widdle snowfwakes got theiw knickrs in knots again.
A PoC breathing can cause that, it’s not a difficult achievement.
My bride was a cat lady and I was her cat.
A few years ago we were Thoughts & Prayers. One of us had a white t-shirt with “prayers” written on it in a comic strip word balloon. And the other wore a black t-shirt with “thoughts”. I had printed on business card sized cards various thoughts and prayers. The thoughts mostly came from the Deepak Chopra simulator and I made up stupid prayers. (I’m praying for you……. Did it work?”). We went to a party and offered people thoughts and prayers. We would pull out a card, read it to them, and then give them the card. The Millennials at the party thought this was hilarious. The amusement level went down as the age of other partygoers went up.
We are well know among our family and friends for our family costumes. I usually craft them and we all work together to decide what we will be as a family. As the kids have gotten older, and after Covid, we’ve been less and less matching. Last year it was sort of a villain theme, daughter was her own version of Audrey II, she’s been making her own costumes the last couple years, and I made myself an Ursula costume and my hubs King Triton.
https://ibb.co/bKmPqgV
Be fair: Trump calls everyone who isn’t him trash. No exceptions.
You can use this:
https://imgbb.com/upload
https://ibb.co/8bbQWk4
https://ibb.co/nww8S7w
Cool. Your daughter did a great job.
I’m going to keep asking this question until there is an answer and women can get actual bodily autonomy.
What is the point of denying services to women actively dying from their doomed pregnancies? Just because there’s still a heartbeat doesn’t mean the fetus will survive, especially if not aborting will kill the mother in a matter of hours or even days. Either way the fetus dies, and both ways, abortion or inaction, you are responsible for the death. There is no medical intervention that will save the fetus, not that the hospital tries to save it anyway. This is literally killing women unnecessarily. You don’t save the baby, you don’t avoid complicity, you just murder the pregnant person in the process of saving your own soul. What kind of god would reward that? One I wouldn’t want to worship, that’s for damn sure.
I want to believe that the mother’s death wasn’t the point, but it sure seems like that is exactly the point of this particular dogmatic policy. If she can’t bring a live child into the world (even if it is her second, third or even fifteenth) then she isn’t worthy of living. Completely ignoring the pregnant person’s agency as a complete human in and of herself.
This is the result of the Life Uber Alles attitude which the Catholic Church has historically taken, particularly since Paul VI issued his encyclical, 𝐻𝑢𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑎𝑒 𝑉𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑒, which condemned the use of any form of "artificial" birth control.
That the RCC is ridiculously inconsistent with the treatment of life AFTER it leaves the womb is beneath their notice.
Murder is murder, and "thou shall not kill" was immediately followed by god demanding people be killed over some golden calf. LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!
The point is power and authority. To impose their view and social rules on others who do not want them. If they cannot be the state (much as they'd like to), then they will substitute for the state where state services are weak while at the same time donating money and using influence to elect representatives who will make the state weak.
religion is the enemy of mankind.
And Christianity is fighting tooth and nail to be Number One.
So far as I know, the suffering is the actual point. The RCC places value on human suffering (provided it's not someone important, like a priest) and honestly believes that women in particular need to suffer due to being the 'daughters of Eve' and original sin. This is the RCC's longstanding policy; and even if Jesus himself showed up at the front door to the Vatican and told them to change it they'd probably refuse.
Why do you think they canonized Mother Theresa? She was completely on-brand for them, and never made a peep about pushing for better lives for women or any other 'uppity' groups.
Let's hope the daughters of Lilith stand up Tuesday and give them a giant FUCK YOU.
A case like this prompted Ireland to legalize abortion.
Indeed, this could have been (and very nearly WAS!) Savita Halappanavar, all over again.
How many have there been in Texas. I've lost count. The U.S. Congress is paralyzed on this issue and Republicans are stuck on the tiger's back. They'd lose most of their support if the caved on the issue, but they've driven off everybody else but the racists.
Another woman recently died in leaving behind a husband and a toddler.
Doesn’t look like it. Looks more like Congress is stalling while the Republicans are woo-hoo-ing over their tigerback ride.