I hope the judge gives every one of them the maximum sentence. I looked it up, it's 25 years. She was a CHILD. The only question I have is why the fuck were they allowed to keep her in their care after the first prison term?
There is no horror that cannot be, and has not been, justified in the name of religion. Religious belief NEVER trumps science, and no discovery of science has ever pointed to the truth of any religious doctrine. I hope everyone of those people does the full bit, and are shown to a very rough time in prison for what they did to that little girl.
To paraphrase Isaac Asimov: we live in a world where your delusion is just as good as my expertise... I fear that they may drive us back to another dark age.
Yet, the conservatives can’t agree on what year, decade, or century that supposedly golden age was? The christian fascist republican and their followers want to drag us (and the world if they could) back to at least 11th century. That way the Republican elite can bring back serfdom (Musk would then get his expendable/lower paid workers) to do all the dirty work that is beneath them.
That's a feature, not a bug- it invites the suckers to bait their own hooks. Every follower of the MAGAt cult gets to decide for themselves what that stupid slogan means, and imagine that 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 personal vision of that never-to-be-explicitly-defined glorious past is what Dear Leader has promised to give them.
Oh, that's not a problem! They can just keep blaming all that bad shit on queers and brown people. It's not like their base is smart enough to catch a single lonely clue between the entire pig-ignorant lot of 'em...
The peak of the Gilded Age in the 1890's seems to be a popular time frame for them. Business had no rules, wokers had no rights and women and people of color were little more than property.
Its been said that food is medicine. If that's the case, then the prison authorities should withhold this medicine from these deranged and delusion adults.
“he was so consumed by a particular belief promoted without pause by all its members, that he never came to the full realisation Elizabeth would probably die, believing instead God would not allow that to happen.”
So, “ I was only following orders” and “God told me to do it” Right now have become legal rationalizations.
So religion becomes yet again an excuse for abominable behavior. Burning witches also has the same justification.
I’m very glad that they have been nailed, but there is nothing stopping them from doing it again after they get out of prison this time..
A condition of their parole should be that they aren't allowed within 100 meters of a child. With luck, their sentences will be long enough that they will be unable to procreate when they get out.
Every single preacher who promotes faith healing or performs it in public is complicit to the death of this little girl and should be punished as a co-conspirator for implanting the false idea that praying could heal the victim. What these preachers do is not a case of religious freedom or free speech, but illegal exercise of a medical profession.
Just last week, I refused an Uber rider who didn't have a car seat for their infant. What a world where a stranger cares more about a child than her parents?
I'm glad that these people (I use that word loosely) were convicted. They deserve to go to prison. Someone commented that the maximum punishment is 25 years. Good. Note: where this happened to one person, it's likely it happened to others as well. These cults are so insular that mostly everyone is terrorized and doesn't blab. However, there are some, er, mainstream religions that also practice faith healing. I know because my brother and I were taken to "healing services" at my parents' very conservative catholic church. I was 8 and had a congenital orthopoedic disability. My brother was a year older and was blind and mentally disabled. After going three times, the priest told my mom not to bring my brother back because he was "too disruptive." (Translation: he was bored. He would slide down the pew, hit anyone who got in his way, and wander around the church making inarticulate sounds.) Mom took me every week for about another six months. She was, shall we say, pissed that I didn't magically get better, and blamed me for being evil. We stopped going because dad lost his job, was in and out of the hospital, and we didn't have the extra cash mom was using at these meetings any more.
As far as the double standard, I think the judge was just recognizing that the cult members were so deep down the indoctrination rabbit hole that they couldn't have any actual intent to kill. That would explain the manslaughter verdict instead of a murder conviction. I just hope that the sentence is long enought that when they get out, they are too old to ever have children again.
No one should be rewarded for choosing to go down a rabbit hole. What choice did the child have? These adults should all get the death sentence otherwise this stupidity never stops. It’s no secret that people die from lack of insulin. To pretend these adults didn’t know this FACT is negligence. THIS death was totally avoidable. BTW: whoever allowed the child to be placed back with the parents after the first incident is also guilty. What were they thinking?
As with her husband, THE COMPLETE ABDICATION ON Mrs struhs' PART OF THE LEGAL DUTY SHE OWED TO HER DAUGHTER constituted such an egregious departure from the standard of care a reasonable member of the community would observe in the same circumstances as to amount to a crime against the State that is deserving of punishment.
Vs
"On the evidence before me, THERE REMAINED A REASONABLE POSDIBILITY THAT, IN THE CLOISTERED ATMOSPHERE OF THE CHURCH WHICH ENVELOPPED Mr struhs, and which only intensified once he made the decision to cease the administration of insulin, he was so consumed by a particular belief promoted
without pause by all its members, that HE NEVER CAME TO THE FULL REALISATION Elizabeth would probably die, believing instead God would not allow that to happen."
Same with the first sentencing too. Why two differents time in jail for two parents who committed the same crime ?
Well, there is the patriachal thing. The mom is somehow supposed to be more involved in the parental care.... Not that I agree with it. The first time, they should have had longer and equal sentences, and never allowed to resume care for the child.
Yet another avoidable tragedy, completely owing to the blind reliance on Christian faith. Elizabeth's diabetes would ordinarily require a routine course of treatment that would keep her alive and happy. Relying on prayer might as well have been relying on a placebo.
Making an example of this cult is a necessary and indeed mandatory correction. It's the kind of thing we should see more often in the United States as well.
But but but consequences for silly religious beliefs in the U.S. would be persecution of the poor little Christians. We can’t have that. Good grief. We just threw away our entire government and way of life so the Christian nationalists would’t suffer from any imaginary prosecution. So they could have their conman grifter lead us all into hell. If it’s religious it MUST be right and it’s the ONLY way. Remember god loves us and an imaginary being would never steer his children down the wrong path. Not ever!?
I want to take every faith healer I can find, set them loose in a pediatric cancer ward and tell them to practice their 'art' with cameras and sound equipment present (along with onscreen captioning giving their names and churches). Then when the absolute failure comes, those "healers" will be exposed as the charlatans they are.
And it doesn't even have to be a children's hospital/ward. It can also be any medical facility where people are missing limbs, organs, etc. Let these holy fools work their "magic" there, as well. Then run them out of town on a rail.
I live close to St. Jude's. Even though it is named after the Catholic patron saint of lost causes, any miracles in Memphis are purely from science. Never have seen a faith healer at St. Jude's!
I am Christian (please don’t shoot me) and this tale is absolutely horrifying. When I pray for healing for people, I thank God for all the amazing people who have made such strides in medicine and for the people who are experts in their fields. I can believe in God and science at the same time. As Friendly Atheist said, why didn’t it occur to them that they could praise God for the discovery of insulin? I am on several different medications and wouldn’t dream of not taking them.
Being a Christian here is not a big deal. You aren't the only one, we will only go after you if you spout bigoted nonsense. You don't have anything to worry about, your reaction to this story shows you are a decent human. Please stick around and keep adding your insights!
It is usually religious people that kill atheists, not atheists killing religious people. And no, Hitler was not atheist. he was a catholic. So just stop writing rubbish like that.
Ah, now I see. I always feel that I have to defend my faith because of all the bad things that have been done in Christianity’s name. This story is truly horrific and I wanted to make sure I stood up and said “not in my faith”. I am sorry my words offended you, please accept my apologies.
Your line about God giving them the knowledge for insulin is so true. Do they really think God would rather they ignore all we have learned to let her die? It is what I can't stand about people who think a person suffers because they did something wrong. It is hubris to think you know what God wants and think that your prayer is the only thing that will work. I do believe in the power of prayer but it should not take the place of modern medicine.
Thing is, though, Yahweh didn't give us the knowledge about insulin. Dr Frederick Banning and Charles Best are credited with discovering insulin in 1921, after considerable strenuous research. Yahweh didn't so much as lift a finger.
There is no evidence that praying does anything for the sick person. The Templeton study showed no benefit from a double blind study. Praying may give the prayer some comfort and you are wasting your time if you think it helps heal the sick. Just like making decisions, without evidence or good reason, faith, has no positive outcomes. This horrible story is a perfect example of praying and faith destroying an innocent child.
P. S. There is no evidence that there is a God to pray to. Only myths, delusions, indoctrination , fear of hell and hope for heaven and a willingness to answer the yet unanswered questions with faith, instead of the only honest answer “I don’t know”, and let’s keep searching.
Have yet to see prayer EVER cure a medical problem. Might make people feel better emotionally but from a medical/science standpoint you’d do just as well blowing smoke up your butt. The US government wasted a million $$ studying the effect of prayer on medical cures. Not surprisingly they found prayer did Nothing! Gee I could have saved them a million $$. Every one of these people esp the parents should swing from a rope. The court system can call it any silly term they want but we all know it was murder. I guess their god WANTED murder. So these adults offered this child in sacrifice. Now the adults should be made examples of. Do this to your child, to any child and you pay with your life. Death sentence for ALL of them. Let them take it up with their god.
If one really deeply thinks about it, God set in motion the disease of diabetes. Millions of children before her died because insulin WAS not available as a treatment, hell, the science needed to understand the process in the first place is brand new in relative terms.
If one really deeply thinks about it you would stop attributing anything to a god until there is some evidence that one exists out side the minds of believers.
If one really thought about it, just as Donnie claimed, god sent him to destroy & kill us all. Not quite how the “savior” explained it but here we are. We’re on our way just as all those poor persecuted Christian nationalist wanted. Thanks Donnie and MAGATS. GLAD we all had a say in this!
I hope the judge gives every one of them the maximum sentence. I looked it up, it's 25 years. She was a CHILD. The only question I have is why the fuck were they allowed to keep her in their care after the first prison term?
That was my question too! How did they retain custody of her?!?
There is no horror that cannot be, and has not been, justified in the name of religion. Religious belief NEVER trumps science, and no discovery of science has ever pointed to the truth of any religious doctrine. I hope everyone of those people does the full bit, and are shown to a very rough time in prison for what they did to that little girl.
To paraphrase Isaac Asimov: we live in a world where your delusion is just as good as my expertise... I fear that they may drive us back to another dark age.
Turning back the clock to that magical time when everything was perfect is a core conservative ideal.
Yet, the conservatives can’t agree on what year, decade, or century that supposedly golden age was? The christian fascist republican and their followers want to drag us (and the world if they could) back to at least 11th century. That way the Republican elite can bring back serfdom (Musk would then get his expendable/lower paid workers) to do all the dirty work that is beneath them.
That's a feature, not a bug- it invites the suckers to bait their own hooks. Every follower of the MAGAt cult gets to decide for themselves what that stupid slogan means, and imagine that 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 personal vision of that never-to-be-explicitly-defined glorious past is what Dear Leader has promised to give them.
And instead gives them disease, bankruptcy, no disaster relief, pollution and no attempt to mitigate extreme weather.
Oh, that's not a problem! They can just keep blaming all that bad shit on queers and brown people. It's not like their base is smart enough to catch a single lonely clue between the entire pig-ignorant lot of 'em...
And a tiny gov't with no safety net. And the right to starve!
The peak of the Gilded Age in the 1890's seems to be a popular time frame for them. Business had no rules, wokers had no rights and women and people of color were little more than property.
1850's they could still own slaves.
With Trumpanzees in control, that is now a certainty.
That is their plan.
Its been said that food is medicine. If that's the case, then the prison authorities should withhold this medicine from these deranged and delusion adults.
Looks...looks...looks...
Nope. No drag queens involved in this girl's needless horrific death. Just Christians.
The "parents" were drama queens who dragged their poor daughter in a living hell.
Or the usual suspects.
“he was so consumed by a particular belief promoted without pause by all its members, that he never came to the full realisation Elizabeth would probably die, believing instead God would not allow that to happen.”
So, “ I was only following orders” and “God told me to do it” Right now have become legal rationalizations.
So religion becomes yet again an excuse for abominable behavior. Burning witches also has the same justification.
I’m very glad that they have been nailed, but there is nothing stopping them from doing it again after they get out of prison this time..
A condition of their parole should be that they aren't allowed within 100 meters of a child. With luck, their sentences will be long enough that they will be unable to procreate when they get out.
What a good idea, it would send them back in jail in less than 2 minutes.
𝐴 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑜𝑛 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑏𝑒 𝑐𝑒𝑟𝑡𝑎𝑖𝑛 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑣𝑖𝑛𝑐𝑒𝑑 𝑎𝑛𝑑 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑢𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑣𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑜𝑓 ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑡𝑢𝑑𝑒 ... 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑏𝑒 𝑊𝑅𝑂𝑁𝐺.
-- me
Well, here's hoping the state of Queensland tells them the state will immediately take custody of any future kids they have.
Just spay and neuter these savages.
Every single preacher who promotes faith healing or performs it in public is complicit to the death of this little girl and should be punished as a co-conspirator for implanting the false idea that praying could heal the victim. What these preachers do is not a case of religious freedom or free speech, but illegal exercise of a medical profession.
And of course, if the person doesn't get well after a "healing" service, it's their fault. 🙄
Just last week, I refused an Uber rider who didn't have a car seat for their infant. What a world where a stranger cares more about a child than her parents?
The following should be on posters:
RELIGION IS NOT HEALTHY FOR CHILDREN OR OTHER LIVING THINGS
Religion kills.
I recognize the original poster. Damn, we are old Nogodz!
So old. I think the original was from the Vietnam Era and instead of the word Religion, it was the word War.
It was, my sister had the original.
Religion poisons everything it touches, would be a good one too. 👍
Or a t-shirt. In different colors, yet
redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/Religion-Poisons-Everything-by-arcanafoundry/122569065.FB110
I'm glad that these people (I use that word loosely) were convicted. They deserve to go to prison. Someone commented that the maximum punishment is 25 years. Good. Note: where this happened to one person, it's likely it happened to others as well. These cults are so insular that mostly everyone is terrorized and doesn't blab. However, there are some, er, mainstream religions that also practice faith healing. I know because my brother and I were taken to "healing services" at my parents' very conservative catholic church. I was 8 and had a congenital orthopoedic disability. My brother was a year older and was blind and mentally disabled. After going three times, the priest told my mom not to bring my brother back because he was "too disruptive." (Translation: he was bored. He would slide down the pew, hit anyone who got in his way, and wander around the church making inarticulate sounds.) Mom took me every week for about another six months. She was, shall we say, pissed that I didn't magically get better, and blamed me for being evil. We stopped going because dad lost his job, was in and out of the hospital, and we didn't have the extra cash mom was using at these meetings any more.
Oh, I forgot to add: right after we stopped going to those services, mom got pregnant. Again. For the tenth time. JesusFuckingChristInABucket.
First, obvious example of double standard in the verdict report .
Second, I agree with Jayde, why letting Elizabeth going back to a family who was at best culprit of dangerous negligence ?
Last, the father wear the weirdest bandaid I ever saw on his face.
As far as the double standard, I think the judge was just recognizing that the cult members were so deep down the indoctrination rabbit hole that they couldn't have any actual intent to kill. That would explain the manslaughter verdict instead of a murder conviction. I just hope that the sentence is long enought that when they get out, they are too old to ever have children again.
No one should be rewarded for choosing to go down a rabbit hole. What choice did the child have? These adults should all get the death sentence otherwise this stupidity never stops. It’s no secret that people die from lack of insulin. To pretend these adults didn’t know this FACT is negligence. THIS death was totally avoidable. BTW: whoever allowed the child to be placed back with the parents after the first incident is also guilty. What were they thinking?
As with her husband, THE COMPLETE ABDICATION ON Mrs struhs' PART OF THE LEGAL DUTY SHE OWED TO HER DAUGHTER constituted such an egregious departure from the standard of care a reasonable member of the community would observe in the same circumstances as to amount to a crime against the State that is deserving of punishment.
Vs
"On the evidence before me, THERE REMAINED A REASONABLE POSDIBILITY THAT, IN THE CLOISTERED ATMOSPHERE OF THE CHURCH WHICH ENVELOPPED Mr struhs, and which only intensified once he made the decision to cease the administration of insulin, he was so consumed by a particular belief promoted
without pause by all its members, that HE NEVER CAME TO THE FULL REALISATION Elizabeth would probably die, believing instead God would not allow that to happen."
Same with the first sentencing too. Why two differents time in jail for two parents who committed the same crime ?
Well, there is the patriachal thing. The mom is somehow supposed to be more involved in the parental care.... Not that I agree with it. The first time, they should have had longer and equal sentences, and never allowed to resume care for the child.
He may also have been appeal-proofing the verdict by going for the lesser charge.
Yet another avoidable tragedy, completely owing to the blind reliance on Christian faith. Elizabeth's diabetes would ordinarily require a routine course of treatment that would keep her alive and happy. Relying on prayer might as well have been relying on a placebo.
Making an example of this cult is a necessary and indeed mandatory correction. It's the kind of thing we should see more often in the United States as well.
But but but consequences for silly religious beliefs in the U.S. would be persecution of the poor little Christians. We can’t have that. Good grief. We just threw away our entire government and way of life so the Christian nationalists would’t suffer from any imaginary prosecution. So they could have their conman grifter lead us all into hell. If it’s religious it MUST be right and it’s the ONLY way. Remember god loves us and an imaginary being would never steer his children down the wrong path. Not ever!?
Only a horrible "father" would want his children to fear him.
"They offered no evidence in their defense."
Actually, they prayed as hard as they could for God himself to appear at trial to exonerate them. Omniscient, omnipotent God didn't answer.
If this trial happened in the U.S., they wouldn't need the almighty - the Supreme Court would have exonerated them.
They even begged their 2 Muslim friends and 1 Jew to pray to THEIR god, with the same result. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.
AKA "OMNIEVERYDAMNEDTHINGGOD."
"Apologetics is the practice of defending religious beliefs through reasoned argumentation."
Incidents like this make it necessary to revise the definition:
Apologetics is the practice of MAKING UP LAME EXCUSES for God's utter failure, utter absence, and utter non-existence.
Apologetics is the practice of defending religious beliefs through argumentation because you don’t have the slightest bit of evidence.
Apologetics. The tactic of the man with no facts and no argument.
This makes me want to vomit. I just can't imagine myself as a parent doing what these people did
I can't imagine as an uncle not kidnapping my niece or nephew if my brother or sister tried this.
"I just can't imagine myself as a parent doing what these people did."
Well that's because you're just a godless heathen. :S
I did drag and would do better. Never a queen.
Don't forget he loves his children too.
As shown by its church.
Ninkasi church ?
A pox on faith healing and those who extol it.
I want to take every faith healer I can find, set them loose in a pediatric cancer ward and tell them to practice their 'art' with cameras and sound equipment present (along with onscreen captioning giving their names and churches). Then when the absolute failure comes, those "healers" will be exposed as the charlatans they are.
And it doesn't even have to be a children's hospital/ward. It can also be any medical facility where people are missing limbs, organs, etc. Let these holy fools work their "magic" there, as well. Then run them out of town on a rail.
"A pox on" antivaxxers and medicine deniers seems both poetic justice and a very likely natural outcome. :)
I live close to St. Jude's. Even though it is named after the Catholic patron saint of lost causes, any miracles in Memphis are purely from science. Never have seen a faith healer at St. Jude's!
With a 9mm at the back of their skull. When they fail squeeze the trigger and they can pray the bullet away.
I am Christian (please don’t shoot me) and this tale is absolutely horrifying. When I pray for healing for people, I thank God for all the amazing people who have made such strides in medicine and for the people who are experts in their fields. I can believe in God and science at the same time. As Friendly Atheist said, why didn’t it occur to them that they could praise God for the discovery of insulin? I am on several different medications and wouldn’t dream of not taking them.
Being a Christian here is not a big deal. You aren't the only one, we will only go after you if you spout bigoted nonsense. You don't have anything to worry about, your reaction to this story shows you are a decent human. Please stick around and keep adding your insights!
Thank you, Joe. I really appreciate your kind words.
It is usually religious people that kill atheists, not atheists killing religious people. And no, Hitler was not atheist. he was a catholic. So just stop writing rubbish like that.
???
The "Pleas don't shoot me" from Suze. Words like that pisses me of. There are a bigger chance that the shooter is religious than an atheist.
Ah, now I see. I always feel that I have to defend my faith because of all the bad things that have been done in Christianity’s name. This story is truly horrific and I wanted to make sure I stood up and said “not in my faith”. I am sorry my words offended you, please accept my apologies.
Your line about God giving them the knowledge for insulin is so true. Do they really think God would rather they ignore all we have learned to let her die? It is what I can't stand about people who think a person suffers because they did something wrong. It is hubris to think you know what God wants and think that your prayer is the only thing that will work. I do believe in the power of prayer but it should not take the place of modern medicine.
Thing is, though, Yahweh didn't give us the knowledge about insulin. Dr Frederick Banning and Charles Best are credited with discovering insulin in 1921, after considerable strenuous research. Yahweh didn't so much as lift a finger.
But then he never does.
But he did lift a finger. Then he pointed it at a woman and hissed…”HUSSY!”
Gotta scroll....
There is no evidence that praying does anything for the sick person. The Templeton study showed no benefit from a double blind study. Praying may give the prayer some comfort and you are wasting your time if you think it helps heal the sick. Just like making decisions, without evidence or good reason, faith, has no positive outcomes. This horrible story is a perfect example of praying and faith destroying an innocent child.
P. S. There is no evidence that there is a God to pray to. Only myths, delusions, indoctrination , fear of hell and hope for heaven and a willingness to answer the yet unanswered questions with faith, instead of the only honest answer “I don’t know”, and let’s keep searching.
What about Odin? He grew up 3 km from where I live. Nice boy/man.
I heard he was hanging with that guy Loki.
Have yet to see prayer EVER cure a medical problem. Might make people feel better emotionally but from a medical/science standpoint you’d do just as well blowing smoke up your butt. The US government wasted a million $$ studying the effect of prayer on medical cures. Not surprisingly they found prayer did Nothing! Gee I could have saved them a million $$. Every one of these people esp the parents should swing from a rope. The court system can call it any silly term they want but we all know it was murder. I guess their god WANTED murder. So these adults offered this child in sacrifice. Now the adults should be made examples of. Do this to your child, to any child and you pay with your life. Death sentence for ALL of them. Let them take it up with their god.
Cue the drowning man parable. "I sent you two boats and a helicopter - what were you waiting for?"
If one really deeply thinks about it, God set in motion the disease of diabetes. Millions of children before her died because insulin WAS not available as a treatment, hell, the science needed to understand the process in the first place is brand new in relative terms.
If one really deeply thinks about it you would stop attributing anything to a god until there is some evidence that one exists out side the minds of believers.
If one really thought about it, just as Donnie claimed, god sent him to destroy & kill us all. Not quite how the “savior” explained it but here we are. We’re on our way just as all those poor persecuted Christian nationalist wanted. Thanks Donnie and MAGATS. GLAD we all had a say in this!