Apart from the psychological effects on the believer, I don't think prayer ever altered the outcome of anything. Prayer allows people to believe they are doing something positive, when in reality, they've done nothing. Expect the religious right to scream bloody murder at how they're being persecuted because someone interfered with their expectation of privilege, when all they're being ordered to do is obey the law.
I have to ask: just how many hours court time, hours of prosecutor research and prep time; in short, HOW MUCH CITY MONEY WAS *WASTED* on this stupidity? Yet again, we have city officials who love them some Jesus and want EVERYONE to join in. Whether they're Christians or not doesn't matter. And let's run roughshod over The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment while we're at it. I also note that the American Humanist Association won this case despite the Supreme Court's dismissal of the Lemon Test.
What I wonder is: now that the Lemon Test is gone, how much longer will the Establishment Clause hang in?
It does matter to them whether or not everyone is Christian. They 𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁 all the non-Christians to know they are second class citizens. They want Crusader style conversions: coercion instead of persuasion.
I’ve attended certain church events before for family members (because it meant a lot to them supposedly) and every single time I walked out utterly furious after being scolded for however many hours for not being a Christian. I will never set foot in another church again for any reason. Why would any sane person submit themselves to such abuse?
To be fair, Gott Mit Uns predates the Nazis. Fredrick I of Prussia first coined the phrase in 1701. German soldiers in WW1 wore that motto on their helmets.
It is cases like this – and there are a lot of cases like this – that argue that our constitution has stopped serving us for quite some time. The founders were quite clear – no establishment of religion, no religious tests for office. And yet, Dominionists have spent a great deal of time and energy and money to see if they could establish their religion above other religions.
As with so many other issues, a document written nearly 250 years ago simply doesn’t serve us anymore. If our country is to continue, and possibly even be restored to its former flawed but useful state, the constitution must go and be replaced by a document that reflects the modern world. Gerrymandering deprives us of democracy . The electoral college deprives us of democracy. Corporations aren’t people, and money isn’t speech. Well regulated militias argue that there is no unlimited right to own as many guns of whatever type as you want without any regulation whatsoever. Church and state must be strictly separated: believe whatever you want, but keep it out of the civil law that governs all of us. A right to privacy is Paramount. Felons may not serve as president. The right to vote is guaranteed and may not be restricted. Term limits on all judges. A much lower threshold for modifying the constitution.
"Regardless of exactly when the ghastly decision was dispatched for good, the Supreme Court has definitively decided that Lemon is dead — long live historical practices and understandings"
This conclusion is entrenched with religious, if not christian privilege, not based on law snd precedent.
"that offended observer standing has no more foundation in the law"
Can someone reminds me what was the basis for hobby lobby ?
BEING persecuted is far different from feeling persecuted. I grew up in a country where "Scared Straight" was the motto. Millions of us were hounded for being Gay. This was was the first order of business for every kkkrister.
Listening to the story about this on NPR this morning, I noted that this ruling is likely only a temporary fix, and that if the full court addresses a similar issue, things might not go so well. Still, I'll take my victories where I can get them.
NEVER kill them. The United CEO was a huge blunder. Disable them. Put them in wheel chairs for life. Give them a lifetime of dialysis. Do unto them as they do unto us. Just sayin'
“As Kennedy commands, the Court bases its decision on a “historically sensitive understanding of the Establishment Clause”…, and comes to this conclusion: where government action amounts to sponsorship of or favoritism towards a religious belief system, it violates the Establishment Clause. That is what happened here.”
So this confirms that city organized religious events are unconstitutional (duh), and the city overstepped.
“The settlement agreement itself is pretty straightforward. Both sides agree to let the district court’s ruling (against Ocala) be the final word on the matter, but they will also go their separate ways without requiring payments from the other side. It doesn’t necessarily prevent city agencies from shoving Christianity into future events, but this case that has dragged on for over a decade will finally end.”
The city, and not just this city but all cities, counties, states and the federal government, are not allowed to organize religious events. You can’t say this city broke the law and not have the decision affect all other government entities, if this is the law and this case was an infringement, then all cases like it are an infringement.
But I guess what you are saying here is that the city can still try to hold an event that is ostensibly secular and still try to include Christian nonsense into it. Probably.
I don’t understand how anyone can say that having the police organize a religious event is not coercive. Especially the way this letter was written, it felt like an implicit order, more than a simple invitation. Add to the fact that police presence always ensures there are guns present as well, the organizers being the police offers a subtle threat toward disobedience. Had the “invitation” come from another city office, perhaps the mayor’s office, or the council itself, there would be far less coercion, still unconstitutional, involved. But the police department is the enforcement arm of the government and that automatically removes any implication of choice on the part of the citizens.
As black and cold as a kkkrister's heart. If your religion tells you to hate someone, you need a new religion. Religious "mporlity[' is all about obeying bronze age god and hating those it tells you to. MY morality is "First, do right by others as they have their own unseen troubles."
Apart from the psychological effects on the believer, I don't think prayer ever altered the outcome of anything. Prayer allows people to believe they are doing something positive, when in reality, they've done nothing. Expect the religious right to scream bloody murder at how they're being persecuted because someone interfered with their expectation of privilege, when all they're being ordered to do is obey the law.
Oraxx, In other words, nothing new. We are witnessing the danger of privileging christianity and religion in general.
I know of no religion that does not see its belief system as the solution to all the world's problems.
Good! Let's keep those praying hands off of government endorsement.
You spelled preying wrong.
It took me some seconds. My excuse is my first language is Norwegian.
I have to ask: just how many hours court time, hours of prosecutor research and prep time; in short, HOW MUCH CITY MONEY WAS *WASTED* on this stupidity? Yet again, we have city officials who love them some Jesus and want EVERYONE to join in. Whether they're Christians or not doesn't matter. And let's run roughshod over The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment while we're at it. I also note that the American Humanist Association won this case despite the Supreme Court's dismissal of the Lemon Test.
What I wonder is: now that the Lemon Test is gone, how much longer will the Establishment Clause hang in?
It does matter to them whether or not everyone is Christian. They 𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁 all the non-Christians to know they are second class citizens. They want Crusader style conversions: coercion instead of persuasion.
I’ve attended certain church events before for family members (because it meant a lot to them supposedly) and every single time I walked out utterly furious after being scolded for however many hours for not being a Christian. I will never set foot in another church again for any reason. Why would any sane person submit themselves to such abuse?
Because Mommy and Daddy said so Just as their parents did to them. It is time to stop the abuse.
That's a valid question. 🙂
*scolded from the pulpit mainly and sometimes family…
"They 𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁 all the the non-Christians to know they are second class citizens"
... for now, until they find a way to declare them non-citizens.
Hitler became Chancellor in 1933. Jews were stripped of citizenship in 1935.
Check out what I just posted about Project Esther.
and don't forget the famous Nazi buckle motto 'God be with us'
To be fair, Gott Mit Uns predates the Nazis. Fredrick I of Prussia first coined the phrase in 1701. German soldiers in WW1 wore that motto on their helmets.
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/499817538_633469456387423_1616621981036511639_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540_tt6&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=1RzYz3h4rMYQ7kNvwH4KxN_&_nc_oc=Adlt7woabvrRpgOpKyhKy9OGdT2Dr6UR4nzyJhPzoE66a4OXnkN5NKG_d4tj6AYTixY&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&_nc_gid=_qrxWVqIrdBbHnBo6Y898g&oh=00_AfIBCL3UOAiMLU0f0lrTrco2OxQ6ukboOfXSrnK22DE5AQ&oe=68353126
You are NOT alone, not by a LONG stretch!
It is cases like this – and there are a lot of cases like this – that argue that our constitution has stopped serving us for quite some time. The founders were quite clear – no establishment of religion, no religious tests for office. And yet, Dominionists have spent a great deal of time and energy and money to see if they could establish their religion above other religions.
As with so many other issues, a document written nearly 250 years ago simply doesn’t serve us anymore. If our country is to continue, and possibly even be restored to its former flawed but useful state, the constitution must go and be replaced by a document that reflects the modern world. Gerrymandering deprives us of democracy . The electoral college deprives us of democracy. Corporations aren’t people, and money isn’t speech. Well regulated militias argue that there is no unlimited right to own as many guns of whatever type as you want without any regulation whatsoever. Church and state must be strictly separated: believe whatever you want, but keep it out of the civil law that governs all of us. A right to privacy is Paramount. Felons may not serve as president. The right to vote is guaranteed and may not be restricted. Term limits on all judges. A much lower threshold for modifying the constitution.
The list goes on.
Make a government of the people, not the states.
I can agree with that. The states are administrative districts, not independent nations.
"Regardless of exactly when the ghastly decision was dispatched for good, the Supreme Court has definitively decided that Lemon is dead — long live historical practices and understandings"
This conclusion is entrenched with religious, if not christian privilege, not based on law snd precedent.
"that offended observer standing has no more foundation in the law"
Can someone reminds me what was the basis for hobby lobby ?
Christian Fucking Privilege. Christians were offended, so they have automatic standing.
THIS SHIT started with the very early dys of the superstition. They destroyed libraries and declared knowledge satanic. Nixey, "The Darkening Age.."
""Our god is the one true god. If it were wrong we would not believe. Ours is the right god so all other gods must be wrong." "
The circle here is unbroken. Nearly all religions make this claim. Paraphrased from "Gpd and his Demons." Parenti.
BEING persecuted is far different from feeling persecuted. I grew up in a country where "Scared Straight" was the motto. Millions of us were hounded for being Gay. This was was the first order of business for every kkkrister.
Whenever someone uses "Blessings" or "Have a BLESSED day" you know that you are about to get jesus pushed down your throat.
then they can shove it up their ass.
Not one prayer has ever stopped a shooting or ever fixed any problem of any kind, not even in their shrines to their 'god'.
Sure helps keep all the faithful t̷a̷r̷g̷e̷t̷s 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴 lined up in neat little rows and facing away from the door, though!
OT: Supreme Court deadlock leaves in place ruling blocking nation’s first religious charter school
https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/22/politics/supreme-court-st-isidore-oklahoma
IN YOUR FACE, Ryan Walters!!! Man, is this good news or WHAT!
Delicious. :)
To the transphobic Ryan "Child Killer" Walters:
Eat it, you worthless bastard.
OMNIphobic kkkrister. Their almighty goddy is powerless over the "satan" its minions created to shift blame away from god.
What you said! In Spades and No Trump, doubled and redoubled, vulnerable! [and I play LOUSY Bridge!]
Oklahoma will just take a page out of the Trump playbook and ignore the ruling. Who's going to stop them? Certainly not the DOJ under Pam Blondie.
You and me both.
Listening to the story about this on NPR this morning, I noted that this ruling is likely only a temporary fix, and that if the full court addresses a similar issue, things might not go so well. Still, I'll take my victories where I can get them.
https://ibb.co/ynft3z0B
💯
OT- Not satisfied with merely releasing a propaganda hit-piece "report" targeting trans healthcare, Chump and Bobby Brainworms have now released another propaganda hit-piece "report" targeting vaccines and some other conspiracy-theory-laden arglebargle: https://apnews.com/article/kennedy-vaccines-food-supply-pesticides-prescription-drugs-de043eb2e0ef7de889416b98141b9078
“This cannot happen through a European mandate system that stifles ̶g̶r̶o̶w̶t̶h̶ profits” FTFY
NOTHING requires any evidence in this malfeasance.
OT: Judge blocks Trump administration from closing the Education Department
https://www.npr.org/2025/05/22/nx-s1-5407521/trump-education-department-layoffs-injunction
I think Linda McMahon just got BODY-SLAMMED!
Drop an elbow on her and then finish her off with a Ghostbuster just to be sure.
NEVER kill them. The United CEO was a huge blunder. Disable them. Put them in wheel chairs for life. Give them a lifetime of dialysis. Do unto them as they do unto us. Just sayin'
Elbow drops and Ghostbusters aren't kill shots. They're meant to incapacitate and send the receiver into unconsciousness. 🙂
Give them the Stephen Hawking treatment.
And an EMP.
Hopefully long-term hospitalization?
Camel-Clutch, Rude Awakening, hell, throw 'em ALL in there!
Equality, equity, acceptance, diversity and belonging...
https://scontent-ord5-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/499527269_633503989717303_6047640339710106199_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=cUEysBwBG9cQ7kNvwGSvjrA&_nc_oc=AdmgesbUhPFkbrYLitYUFdywrMckEDgtieChU6xi-2tiTi4kb76ot3_DJmKm_HMJ4O0&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-3.xx&_nc_gid=H6cjQW1igVqb_gG8V__neA&oh=00_AfIinKnb38J2woZ6Myji4w4Wlt3gIIRei74uMeAmMp5N_Q&oe=683548D7
And of course, we gots Trump & Co. saying, "Nope, nope, we can't have none of that nasty DEI stuff!"
Of course, jesus disagrees vehemently
And Republican Jesus is positively livid about it!
“As Kennedy commands, the Court bases its decision on a “historically sensitive understanding of the Establishment Clause”…, and comes to this conclusion: where government action amounts to sponsorship of or favoritism towards a religious belief system, it violates the Establishment Clause. That is what happened here.”
So this confirms that city organized religious events are unconstitutional (duh), and the city overstepped.
“The settlement agreement itself is pretty straightforward. Both sides agree to let the district court’s ruling (against Ocala) be the final word on the matter, but they will also go their separate ways without requiring payments from the other side. It doesn’t necessarily prevent city agencies from shoving Christianity into future events, but this case that has dragged on for over a decade will finally end.”
The city, and not just this city but all cities, counties, states and the federal government, are not allowed to organize religious events. You can’t say this city broke the law and not have the decision affect all other government entities, if this is the law and this case was an infringement, then all cases like it are an infringement.
But I guess what you are saying here is that the city can still try to hold an event that is ostensibly secular and still try to include Christian nonsense into it. Probably.
I don’t understand how anyone can say that having the police organize a religious event is not coercive. Especially the way this letter was written, it felt like an implicit order, more than a simple invitation. Add to the fact that police presence always ensures there are guns present as well, the organizers being the police offers a subtle threat toward disobedience. Had the “invitation” come from another city office, perhaps the mayor’s office, or the council itself, there would be far less coercion, still unconstitutional, involved. But the police department is the enforcement arm of the government and that automatically removes any implication of choice on the part of the citizens.
OT
It's World Goth Day today. Crank up Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees and about a zillion other bands and join in the dark celebration.
"I see a red door
And I want it painted black
No colors anymore
I want them to turn black..."
As black and cold as a kkkrister's heart. If your religion tells you to hate someone, you need a new religion. Religious "mporlity[' is all about obeying bronze age god and hating those it tells you to. MY morality is "First, do right by others as they have their own unseen troubles."
My local township has "in God we trust" on all the city police cars. I'm afraid to complain because it's such a small town I'd become a target.
Unfortunately, your fear is probably well founded.
First off, "offended" is the wrong adjective. "discriminated against" would be better.
Second, any citizen should have standing to bring a constitutional question to the courts, as we are all subject to it and it draws its power from us.
𝐴𝑙𝑙 𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑚𝑎𝑙𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑒𝑞𝑢𝑎𝑙, 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑠𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑚𝑎𝑙𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑒𝑞𝑢𝑎𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑠.
-- George Orwell, Animal Farm
Cited by more Christians than I can count.