Lakepointe Church and Pastor Josh Howerton have installed a system capable of monitoring staff, tracking license plates, and destroying any expectations of privacy
There is a significant difference here: North Korea doesn’t allow defectors to leave. They use their systems to keep people out & in.
Do you think Lakepointe uses their system to keep their attendees from leaving their congregation? Or do people have a choice to go to another place of worship?
If technology can be abused, it will be abused. I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone who would willingly delegate their thinking to a mega-church pastor. Or any other pastor for that matter. The herd instinct runs deep in the human species. It may have helped us survive, but that instinct has become a double-edged sword in the modern age.
Since churches like this truly are for-profit businesses pretending to be non-profit entities, then it's far past time to treat them as for-pofit and tax the hell out of them. All those cameras are proof that $$$ is what they're after.
I think that proven charity expenses for churches should be tax-free, just as they are for non-profits, but church money should be taxed. They do not represent everyone in the country and they should not be supported by the taxes those people pay.
These people have a lot of nerve, using a level of surveillance that would make Kim Jong Il proud, AND YET THEY ARE CLAIMING THAT RECENT TRENDS IN THE PROGRESSIVE SECTION OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ARE COMMUNIST? Right, nothing to see here. s/
There have been over fifty policemen caught using flock cameras to stalk women in 2026 alone. Not just to catch a woman from accessing medical care, but to commit violence and intimidation against significant others and exes. We do not hear about it much on the news, because… reasons. Mostly because men commit so many crimes against women, it isn’t newsworthy anymore.
That number is, without a doubt, far too low to be plausible. What are victims gonna do, call the same police who are stalking them with these stupid things? A few might go to the media, but most are going to be afraid of even worse retaliation. That's always been the case, even when it wasn't possible for an abuser to track their victim's every move with the push of a button- and since these things have national databases, even moving across the country and changing their name wouldn't be enough to get away anymore.
Isn't gawd supposed to be the *ultimate* surveillance and accountability system, or something? Funny that Josh don't seem to have much failth (yes, that's a typo, but I rather think it works, don't you?) in his ability to police his own house.
Agreed. Four hundred cameras covering every square foot is super creepy cranked up to 12. AI-powered cameras with facial recognition and license plate reading capacity is super creepy to the infinite power.
If safety were really the issue, it would be just standard cameras sans AI abilities in any area where adults interact with children, and in the parking lot in the event of fender benders like when somebody backs out of a space without looking and there are insurance claims involved.
Everything else, especially cameras in staffers' work spaces is unnecessary, and the "safety" excuse is pure bullshit. Unless, of course, there are also cameras in the pastor's and associate pastor's and youth pastor's office as well. The story doesn't say whether or not that is the case, but I would bet good money that it ain't.
Oh, what fun this is going to be! And yet, I’m really irritated because I’m on my 1st cup of coffee, our nephew and his girlfriend are coming in for a week of family fun with the gay uncles— they’re the best kind, according to independent surveys on the subject— Das Husband of course leaves everything to me…
And now I have to write a book-length essay on totalitarianism, high authoritarian/high control ministry, MAGAtry, dysfunctional authoritarian structures, especially religious structures, and AI and the implications for the existence of that special deity, GAWDAMIGHTYIDONTBELIEVEIN.
Hemant has no pity, and I am almost out of milk for my coffee.
OK, let’s start with this. Hemant wrote: “Apffel pointed out that the church’s leader, Pastor Josh Howerton, recently said on his podcast that authoritarian governments (like in North Korea) have mass surveillance and that leads to a “dystopian culture.” So why is Howerton insistent on having all these cameras in and around his church?”
Oh, Hemant! You deer sweet summer child! You’ve answered your own question. That’s precisely the point. An authoritarian government! Dystopian culture! Dysfunctional authoritarian structures. Right and ripe and far right for abuse!
Captain Cassidy has written a couple of columns now about how AI is approaching God like status among the high authoritarian conservative religionists. It knows all. And now it sees All. It knows when you’ve been naughty or nice, just like Santa Claus. He’s everywhere and he knows everything. All answers are there and if you sincerely pray in Google’s name, your prayer will be answered .
Notice how I switched from “it” to “he” and back again.
400 cameras, huh!!! what a stunning and startling admission of both omnipotence and omnimpotence— read it carefully if you know what’s good for you— this is. Christian morality says that the church is full of sinners, not saints, but they never expected that to be taken seriously. But now, it really is full of sinners, and they are dangerous, so Big Brother needs to watch out for you.*
But here is the big Takeaway: “ He also said that he’s received nothing but praise for the excess, with supporters telling him they now feel safer at his church .” really? They feel safer? With God at home in God’s house, and God’s people in charge of God’s house? You would think it would be the safest place on earth, but, at the same time, they’re admitting that prayer does absolutely nothing, as it did absolutely nothing in Sutherland Springs or Butler Pennsylvania or anycatholic boys school. Prayer will not protect you. But even worse, Christian morality will not protect you.
Only Pastor Overton—I mean Howerton— damn that German orthography— they are the same name after all— can protect you.
And he will.
Or else.
* but who takes care of the caretaker’s daughter while the caretaker is busy taking care? PAstor Dick to the rescue!!!!!
Apparently, Josh Howerton isn't satisfied having Yahweh watch over his flock. He needs Big Brother, or in this case, Big Josh and Coram to do the job properly. Question becomes: how much of this is driven by security and how much will wind up being VOYEURISM? Those cams in changing areas deserve a bit more consideration than they may have gotten to date, and were I a woman in that church, I would INSIST either that their presence is justified or that those cams get REMOVED.
There is a whole lot that hasn't been explained here, and I see a proper explanation as necessary.
Hey TS, how do like living on the Gulf of Cleveland?
"The Cleveland City Council voted this week to rename parts of Lake Erie to the “Gulf of Cleveland,” mocking President Donald Trump’s executive order last month renaming Lake Ontario as “Lake America.”
Kris Harsh, a nonpartisan City Council member who spearheaded the resolution, described the move as a humorous attempt to poke fun at Trump, whom he said is a man who “clearly isn’t afraid to say what no one is thinking.”"
Meanwhile, I'm wondering how much longer Donnie Dumbass continues with this crap before someone walks up to him, bitchslaps him (and I mean HARD!), and tells him bluntly, "KNOCK IT OFF!"
Well, yesterday's stunt was to threaten to bankrupt the Kennedy Center unless they put his name back on it. And we have to take the threat seriously: if there's one thing Trump does well, it's bankruptcies.
Evidently, it's all the judges fault... That the Executive isn't spending the $240 million that Congress authorized and appropriated for Kennedy Center repairs over the next decade...
Seems to me that judges are increasingly not letting poor Donnie have his way. On top of that, there are Republicans who are giving voice to their displeasure and MAGAts becoming disaffected.
The wheels may well be coming off, and the resulting accident will NOT be pretty.
I have a question about privacy and such within a church. I know it’s not Catholic, but don’t they still have a certain confessional type practice, at least an understanding that when a layman speaks with the preacher their conversation is protected? Isn’t that how all the churches are getting away with all the kiddy diddling and not having to report to civil authorities? So, if there is an expectation of complete privacy in a confession type scenario, wouldn’t just the idea of planting cameras all over the place undermine that privacy? Can we now say that, since the church itself is ignoring even the illusion of privacy, there is no reason whatsoever anymore to excuse priests and preachers from being mandatory reporters and nail their asses to the wall for covering up molestation.
When admitting to a conversation that is detrimental to the church, they'll say its like confession.
When it helps the church at the expense of the confessor, they'll point out that Texas is a one-party-consent state (i.e. you can record your conversations without the other party being aware of it).
There was a candidate for local office ~15ish years ago whose last name was Fyock. He thought “Fyock the Vote” would be a good campaign slogan. It wasn’t.
I can see them all watching the monitor that has a child being molested by a youth pastor while ignoring the other monitors of people bringing loaded weapons into the church.
But nope. The cameras are being used as 𝘵𝘰𝘰𝘭𝘴 for the predators.
And what actual oversight will one camera per ten parishioners provide? (The church seats about 4400, over 400 cameras.) And flawed AI looking for whatever the leadership considers inappropriate behavior. How many poor people will be singled out because the camera caught them putting a 5 instead of a 20 into the collection basket? How many women will be scolded because their skirt is an inch too short? How many teenagers will be exposed to their parents for holding hands? It isn't the oversight that we are critical of. It is the heavy handed surveillance state authoritarianism on full display.
I can remember one Sunday morning back in the late 80's or maybe early 90's when I flipped on my TV and saw a local church service. It was near christmas and they were singing christmas hymns so I left it on and went about my morning. I don't remember what the sermon was about, but I did notice the frequent cuts to individuals in the congregation to catch their reactions. After a while, I couldn't help wondering if these folks knew their faces were being broadcast on live TV.
But at least TV cameras back then were honking huge, and their presence couldn't actually be that much of a secret. These days with cameras the size of matchboxes or smaller, it's a far, far more troublesome premise.
It's only bad when North Korea does it!
/s
There is a significant difference here: North Korea doesn’t allow defectors to leave. They use their systems to keep people out & in.
Do you think Lakepointe uses their system to keep their attendees from leaving their congregation? Or do people have a choice to go to another place of worship?
If technology can be abused, it will be abused. I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone who would willingly delegate their thinking to a mega-church pastor. Or any other pastor for that matter. The herd instinct runs deep in the human species. It may have helped us survive, but that instinct has become a double-edged sword in the modern age.
Yep...This is a story about self inflicted violation of privacy
Since churches like this truly are for-profit businesses pretending to be non-profit entities, then it's far past time to treat them as for-pofit and tax the hell out of them. All those cameras are proof that $$$ is what they're after.
💯
So sick and tired of the obvious
What about the dirty pictures? What about them?
I think that proven charity expenses for churches should be tax-free, just as they are for non-profits, but church money should be taxed. They do not represent everyone in the country and they should not be supported by the taxes those people pay.
🎯🎯🎯
Render unto Caesar and all that.
Their own bible tells followers to pay their taxes and why. More scripture they conveniently pretend isn't there or hope no one else notices.
Not so much Caesar as Mammon.
That shit sounds expensive. Probably leaves little left to feed the hungry (as if they were doing that in the first place).
These people have a lot of nerve, using a level of surveillance that would make Kim Jong Il proud, AND YET THEY ARE CLAIMING THAT RECENT TRENDS IN THE PROGRESSIVE SECTION OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ARE COMMUNIST? Right, nothing to see here. s/
Hypocrisy has never bothered them before and it isn't going to now.
Hypocrisy is a feature of the creature.
It’s their religion. Hypochristianity.
👀
It has probably already been used for stalking purposes. If it hasn't, it will be.
There have been over fifty policemen caught using flock cameras to stalk women in 2026 alone. Not just to catch a woman from accessing medical care, but to commit violence and intimidation against significant others and exes. We do not hear about it much on the news, because… reasons. Mostly because men commit so many crimes against women, it isn’t newsworthy anymore.
That number is, without a doubt, far too low to be plausible. What are victims gonna do, call the same police who are stalking them with these stupid things? A few might go to the media, but most are going to be afraid of even worse retaliation. That's always been the case, even when it wasn't possible for an abuser to track their victim's every move with the push of a button- and since these things have national databases, even moving across the country and changing their name wouldn't be enough to get away anymore.
It’s so depressing.
💯
"We need them to keep our people safe."
Um, isn't that your god's job? Are you saying YHVH is Mitch McConnell and isn't up to the task anymore? Puny god.
Isn't gawd supposed to be the *ultimate* surveillance and accountability system, or something? Funny that Josh don't seem to have much failth (yes, that's a typo, but I rather think it works, don't you?) in his ability to police his own house.
Agreed. Four hundred cameras covering every square foot is super creepy cranked up to 12. AI-powered cameras with facial recognition and license plate reading capacity is super creepy to the infinite power.
If safety were really the issue, it would be just standard cameras sans AI abilities in any area where adults interact with children, and in the parking lot in the event of fender benders like when somebody backs out of a space without looking and there are insurance claims involved.
Everything else, especially cameras in staffers' work spaces is unnecessary, and the "safety" excuse is pure bullshit. Unless, of course, there are also cameras in the pastor's and associate pastor's and youth pastor's office as well. The story doesn't say whether or not that is the case, but I would bet good money that it ain't.
Oh, what fun this is going to be! And yet, I’m really irritated because I’m on my 1st cup of coffee, our nephew and his girlfriend are coming in for a week of family fun with the gay uncles— they’re the best kind, according to independent surveys on the subject— Das Husband of course leaves everything to me…
And now I have to write a book-length essay on totalitarianism, high authoritarian/high control ministry, MAGAtry, dysfunctional authoritarian structures, especially religious structures, and AI and the implications for the existence of that special deity, GAWDAMIGHTYIDONTBELIEVEIN.
Hemant has no pity, and I am almost out of milk for my coffee.
OK, let’s start with this. Hemant wrote: “Apffel pointed out that the church’s leader, Pastor Josh Howerton, recently said on his podcast that authoritarian governments (like in North Korea) have mass surveillance and that leads to a “dystopian culture.” So why is Howerton insistent on having all these cameras in and around his church?”
Oh, Hemant! You deer sweet summer child! You’ve answered your own question. That’s precisely the point. An authoritarian government! Dystopian culture! Dysfunctional authoritarian structures. Right and ripe and far right for abuse!
Captain Cassidy has written a couple of columns now about how AI is approaching God like status among the high authoritarian conservative religionists. It knows all. And now it sees All. It knows when you’ve been naughty or nice, just like Santa Claus. He’s everywhere and he knows everything. All answers are there and if you sincerely pray in Google’s name, your prayer will be answered .
Notice how I switched from “it” to “he” and back again.
400 cameras, huh!!! what a stunning and startling admission of both omnipotence and omnimpotence— read it carefully if you know what’s good for you— this is. Christian morality says that the church is full of sinners, not saints, but they never expected that to be taken seriously. But now, it really is full of sinners, and they are dangerous, so Big Brother needs to watch out for you.*
But here is the big Takeaway: “ He also said that he’s received nothing but praise for the excess, with supporters telling him they now feel safer at his church .” really? They feel safer? With God at home in God’s house, and God’s people in charge of God’s house? You would think it would be the safest place on earth, but, at the same time, they’re admitting that prayer does absolutely nothing, as it did absolutely nothing in Sutherland Springs or Butler Pennsylvania or anycatholic boys school. Prayer will not protect you. But even worse, Christian morality will not protect you.
Only Pastor Overton—I mean Howerton— damn that German orthography— they are the same name after all— can protect you.
And he will.
Or else.
* but who takes care of the caretaker’s daughter while the caretaker is busy taking care? PAstor Dick to the rescue!!!!!
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Oh you learned doctors with your learned Latin always learning the rest of us.
Rorschach.
Uh-huh. That guy was NEVER right in the head, and Doctor Manhattan settled his hash.
The flocks say thet "feel safer?" They're being watched. What else would they say?
Apparently, Josh Howerton isn't satisfied having Yahweh watch over his flock. He needs Big Brother, or in this case, Big Josh and Coram to do the job properly. Question becomes: how much of this is driven by security and how much will wind up being VOYEURISM? Those cams in changing areas deserve a bit more consideration than they may have gotten to date, and were I a woman in that church, I would INSIST either that their presence is justified or that those cams get REMOVED.
There is a whole lot that hasn't been explained here, and I see a proper explanation as necessary.
OT:
Hey TS, how do like living on the Gulf of Cleveland?
"The Cleveland City Council voted this week to rename parts of Lake Erie to the “Gulf of Cleveland,” mocking President Donald Trump’s executive order last month renaming Lake Ontario as “Lake America.”
Kris Harsh, a nonpartisan City Council member who spearheaded the resolution, described the move as a humorous attempt to poke fun at Trump, whom he said is a man who “clearly isn’t afraid to say what no one is thinking.”"
https://www.washingtonsun.com/us-news/gulf-of-cleveland-city-council-lake-erie-america
How do I like it? Oh, it's FAR OUT, man! 🤣
Meanwhile, I'm wondering how much longer Donnie Dumbass continues with this crap before someone walks up to him, bitchslaps him (and I mean HARD!), and tells him bluntly, "KNOCK IT OFF!"
Won't happen, but would be nice, at least.
Well, yesterday's stunt was to threaten to bankrupt the Kennedy Center unless they put his name back on it. And we have to take the threat seriously: if there's one thing Trump does well, it's bankruptcies.
Evidently, it's all the judges fault... That the Executive isn't spending the $240 million that Congress authorized and appropriated for Kennedy Center repairs over the next decade...
Seems to me that judges are increasingly not letting poor Donnie have his way. On top of that, there are Republicans who are giving voice to their displeasure and MAGAts becoming disaffected.
The wheels may well be coming off, and the resulting accident will NOT be pretty.
Are you sure you want see how that would rearrange the collagen in his face? ,🫨🫠
I can think of a few different ways I'd like to see that face re-arranged.
Positive, beyond any doubt. Throughout, cameras would be available to record the event.
And the aftermath!
Yahweh likes to watch. Howerton is jealous that Yahweh won't share the video feed.
Yahweh doesn't share his video feed with Josh, so Josh had to set up his own.
I have a question about privacy and such within a church. I know it’s not Catholic, but don’t they still have a certain confessional type practice, at least an understanding that when a layman speaks with the preacher their conversation is protected? Isn’t that how all the churches are getting away with all the kiddy diddling and not having to report to civil authorities? So, if there is an expectation of complete privacy in a confession type scenario, wouldn’t just the idea of planting cameras all over the place undermine that privacy? Can we now say that, since the church itself is ignoring even the illusion of privacy, there is no reason whatsoever anymore to excuse priests and preachers from being mandatory reporters and nail their asses to the wall for covering up molestation.
If they don’t respect the privacy, why should we?
When admitting to a conversation that is detrimental to the church, they'll say its like confession.
When it helps the church at the expense of the confessor, they'll point out that Texas is a one-party-consent state (i.e. you can record your conversations without the other party being aware of it).
Choices…
“God watches over everything you do.”
Or
“We have to put 400 cameras up on campus to make sure you’re not sinning.”
PICK A LANE :)
Sheeple. Thousands of them.
Gives new meaning to flock cameras.
Personally, I think those cameras need to get flocked!
There was a candidate for local office ~15ish years ago whose last name was Fyock. He thought “Fyock the Vote” would be a good campaign slogan. It wasn’t.
By
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iIpfWORQWhU&pp=ygUXZmxvY2sgb2Ygc2VhZ3VsbHMgaSByYW4%3D
And the shepherds plan to do 𝘢𝘭𝘭 three things with 'em.
🎶 𝑯𝒆 𝒔𝒆𝒆𝒔 𝒚𝒐𝒖 𝒘𝒉𝒆𝒏 𝒚𝒐𝒖'𝒓𝒆 𝒔𝒍𝒆𝒆𝒑𝒊𝒏𝒈 🎶
🎶 𝑯𝒆 𝒌𝒏𝒐𝒘𝒔 𝒘𝒉𝒆𝒏 𝒚𝒐𝒖'𝒓𝒆 𝒂𝒘𝒂𝒌𝒆 🎶
🎶 𝑯𝒆 𝒌𝒏𝒐𝒘𝒔 𝒊𝒇 𝒚𝒐𝒖'𝒗𝒆 𝒃𝒆𝒆𝒏 𝒃𝒂𝒅 𝒐𝒓 𝒈𝒐𝒐𝒅 🎶
🎶 𝑨𝒏𝒅 𝒚𝒐𝒖𝒓 𝒕𝒊𝒕𝒉𝒊𝒏𝒈𝒔 𝒉𝒆 𝒘𝒊𝒍𝒍 𝒕𝒂𝒌𝒆 🎶
♫♪ He knows if you've been bad or good ♪♫
♫♪ And when you masturbate! 😱 ♪♫
♫♪ 𝘏𝘦 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸𝘴 𝘩𝘰𝘸 𝘮𝘶𝘤𝘩 𝘛-𝘗 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘶𝘴𝘦𝘥 ♫♪
♫♪ 𝘈𝘯𝘥 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘮𝘦𝘥𝘴 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘵𝘢𝘬𝘦 ♫♪
That, too! 😁
I can see them all watching the monitor that has a child being molested by a youth pastor while ignoring the other monitors of people bringing loaded weapons into the church.
At least one of them will try to sell the recordings on the dark web.
Only one?
[𝐴]𝑑𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑐𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑠 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 ℎ𝑦𝑝𝑜𝑐𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑒𝑠 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒 𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑠𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑑𝑒 𝑐ℎ𝑢𝑟𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑠 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑛𝑜𝑤 𝑏𝑎𝑙𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑠.
If the cameras were only used for actual oversight and to catch predators, he 𝗺𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁 have a point.
𝑊𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑛 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑐ℎ𝑎𝑛𝑔𝑒𝑑 𝑐𝑙𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑠 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒 𝑟𝑜𝑜𝑚𝑠 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑘𝑛𝑜𝑤𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑐𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑎𝑠 𝑤𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑒𝑛𝑡.
But nope. The cameras are being used as 𝘵𝘰𝘰𝘭𝘴 for the predators.
And what actual oversight will one camera per ten parishioners provide? (The church seats about 4400, over 400 cameras.) And flawed AI looking for whatever the leadership considers inappropriate behavior. How many poor people will be singled out because the camera caught them putting a 5 instead of a 20 into the collection basket? How many women will be scolded because their skirt is an inch too short? How many teenagers will be exposed to their parents for holding hands? It isn't the oversight that we are critical of. It is the heavy handed surveillance state authoritarianism on full display.
Collection basket? Get with the times, these days they do direct deposit. 🏦💸🏦
I can remember one Sunday morning back in the late 80's or maybe early 90's when I flipped on my TV and saw a local church service. It was near christmas and they were singing christmas hymns so I left it on and went about my morning. I don't remember what the sermon was about, but I did notice the frequent cuts to individuals in the congregation to catch their reactions. After a while, I couldn't help wondering if these folks knew their faces were being broadcast on live TV.
But at least TV cameras back then were honking huge, and their presence couldn't actually be that much of a secret. These days with cameras the size of matchboxes or smaller, it's a far, far more troublesome premise.
Friends......
I'm fine, but I need to give all of you a break for a while.
Only love....
Be well and in good cheer. 🫡