Remember Jesus, assholes? The guy you all claim to follow? He had things to say about people who had to put their piousness on display in front of everybody, and you know what? He didn’t approve.
Here it is IN HIS OWN WORDS:
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
The Gospel of St. Matthew, Chapter 6, Verse 5-6
If you believe in the Bible, there it is. Straight from the Savior’s mouth.
Right-wing christians don't bother with that 'private prayer', hippy stuff, silly! If they aren't making a spectacle of themselves, their gawd can't hear them.
I think it would be very interesting if, when a legal case was brought about this, to bring up those passages in the Bible as a religious argument against public religious displays.
After all, they want to force their religious beliefs on everybody else. Why shouldn’t everybody else force their religious beliefs on the superduper Christians?
It’s not even everyone else forcing their religious beliefs on the Christians. It’s everyone else saying “Hey Christians, you should follow your own religious beliefs”.
BWAH HA HA HA HA HA! Never seen this. (I would have used emojis but when I try to do this on my phone there's always a bunch of substack shit I have to go through. One of the many reasons I hate this site.)
Christian Fucking Privilege. This isn't even remotely an attack on Christians, and the persecution complex still refers its ugly head.
Any sensible rule that applies to everyone equally that also slightly inconveniences performative Christian Nazionalism is rage bait to these snowflakes. The game is over, get off the ice. Makes sense, applies to everyone, is only a minor inconvenience for any activity the teams want to do as part of the post game happenings. And since the Christians can no longer do their thing in the most visible space, they are being "persecuted". While the rule is on hold, some coach should get a bunch of pride flags for the players to wave as they do some laps.
How many of those kids are praying out of peer pressure or because they think it’s “tradition”? Moving the prayers off-ice gives those kids a chance to slip away. And that’s the real reason the evangelists are making a fuss.
Again reminded of what Christopher Hitchens used to say, ""Those who are determined to be 'offended' will discover a provocation somewhere. We cannot possibly adjust enough to please the fanatics, and it is degrading to make the attempt".
The hockey league has a good, unanimously supported reason for moving people off the ice after a hockey game. NOBODY is denying christians - or anyone else - right to pray, they just can't do it center-ice - which is apparently more important to determined-to-be-offended crowd than kids on the sidelines doing the same activity. DO NOT CAVE, Minnesota Hockey! You can never satisfy the fanatics.
Probably a non-starter. Zambonis have a POOR turning radius, and the typical running pattern for them is to go the length of the ice in a staggered ob-round path.
Again, you have kids who think they can arrogate the venue to themselves, failing to realize that they're NOT the only ones who use the ice, and that there is a schedule to be kept.
Can't these Christian nuts obey the very Jesus they claim to worship? Especially when he said, and I quote from Matthew 6:5-8 NIV,
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."
I’m no theologian, but here’s my interpretation of this passage. It is directing followers to reject reality and nature which is not only beautiful and tender, but also violent and cruel. It is directing folks to be meek and make themselves small in order to control them (slave morality). It makes sense that this forces individuals to act out and disobey in order to regain some sort of power they feel they have lost.
They can be sincere until the cows come home. The PROBLEM is that they're occupying the rink when the management wants to take what little time they have to repair the ice for the next group of skaters.
This isn't about sincerity. It's about respecting the venue and those who run it.
My reply was to OwossoHarpist who seemed to be saying that it was an issue of hypocrisy. I don't think they should have those prayers on the ice if it holds up other games but could be done somewhere else.
The text clearly states that Jesus was talking about people who were praying in public to be noticed by others. Personally, I'm not big on public prayers because so many hypocrites use them to push an agenda and to get attention.
Center ice is the position equidistant between both benches. The location makes sense as the easiest for both teams to get to.. But, I don't think they should pray on the ice after games.
All I can say is that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. I've seen otherwise but I've also seen the indoctrination you refer to. I recall one situation while looking for a new church home after moving. During the service, I saw several kinds of psychological manipulation being engaged in by the minister and how the congregation was eagerly eating it up. When the minister asked for "all the forces of Satan to leave this assembly", I figured that was my cue and so I got up and walked out the door.
All xtian activity is psychological manipulation. I could see it at 10 years old when I rejected this utter nonsense of supernatural beings. It's why you ignore genocide. You belong to a cult.
You know, I've seen the same charge leveled against atheists. Instead of trying to label a group, I try to take people on their own. That's why even though we disagree some of my best friends are atheists.
Atheists knock on no doors, ask for no tithes, send no children to Sunday school, ask for no tax exemptions, do not try to limit the civil and legal rights of individuals and do not proselytize.
Stop lying. This is why people are abandoning your cult.
This comes off as innocent at first glance, but it is far more insidious than that. The backlash at asking the kids to move it off the ice coming from adults that aren’t a part of the league administration gives away the game. This is about holding the spectators hostage to the prayers, it’s about pressuring more kids into participating in the prayers. What happens to the kids who aren’t interested in this performative piety? Parents/spectators want to stay in the stands while their kids are still on the ice, or folks do like to watch the Zamboni, but now they have to sit through a prayer session as though they’re at a church. If this was about the kids they would be the ones speaking out. If it was about their own religious expression, they would be fine with moving to a safer, warmer, more comfortable with access to drinking water place for the prayers that can be longer and have more opportunity to be friendly with the other team. Nope, this is a performance for the stands and the kids who aren’t interested in praying in front of everyone.
Typical churchling mentality, giving themselves exemptions from the rules EVERYONE ELSE must abide by.
If the kids wanted to do a brief victory dance, they'd be told to clear the ice.
If the kids wanted to honor a particular player, they'd be told to clear the ice.
If the kids wanted to do ANYTHING after the game, they'd be told to clear the ice.
WHY? To stop wasting time & make way for next event!
Bet you that if the players were making muslim, hindu, buddhist, zoroastrian or whatever other kind of prayer, these churchlings that are complaining that they should be allowed pray & to waste the league's time would suddenly want everyone's right to prayers canceled.
Religionite arrogance must be stopped.
We desperately need TOTAL & PERMANENT Separation of Religion & State.
Some kind of flash mob performance would be cool. Are there hockey songs?
ETA and OT: The minor league baseball team in Savannah are called the Bananas. Savannah Bananas. Bright yellow uniforms but that’s not the point. Nice logo on their hat too but also not the point. Minor league baseball is partly baseball and partly family entertainment. The Bananas do lip synching routines on the field mid-game that are delightful.
The first one is from Pitch Perfect. The second is Dirty Dancing.
“ If you think a group prayer “loses its meaning” if you can’t do it publicly, then just admit this is about satisfying your ego, not about faith. There’s absolutely no reason anyone who wants to pray can’t do it off the ice, or in the locker room, or outside the rink with the other team.”
Hmmm…
During the marriage wars, of course. Christians of a certain sort were busy claiming that if those dirty homosexuals were allowed to marry each each other, their thoroughly heterosexual marriages, like Ted Haggard’s or Matt Schlappe’s marriages, were going to lose meaning. In fact, a few people went so far as to claim that if those dirty homosexuals were allowed to be married, they were simply going to end their own marriages, because marriage is a holy institution.
It’s funny, but they’ve never claimed this about other wholly holy marriages, like Trump’s or Gingrich’s, which turned out to be wholly holey as well.
“This entire fake controversy is a reminder of how we live in a society where Christian activists twist ordinary, practical decisions into fictional assaults on their faith. They can’t tell the difference between genuine oppression and a minor inconvenience. For those who thrive on grievance, no policy is too small to spin into a culture war crusade.”
This pretty much sums it up. Everything is a grievance to these supposed “Christians”. Trump has created a society of loud mouthed obnoxious “poor me” Christians. I’ll bet my 401K that these same people would have an epic meltdown if a Muslim or Jewish person wanted to pray at the end of a hockey game.
Hmph. Those who want to pray on center ice want respect for their religion. The question then becomes: do they have any respect for those who own and manage the ice rink and the fact that those praying are NOT the only ones who wish to use the ice?
Once again, we have Christians who insist on preferential treatment and cannot be bothered to note the exigencies of the environment they are praying in. They want to be SPECIAL, mostly because Jesus.
And consideration of others simply is not on the table for them.
Way OT: <personal rant>I got bit by the new car bug on Friday (for those who have never experienced this particular insect, it is pernicious, invasive and very expensive to get rid of) so I spent several hours doing research and playing with options to see if I could afford it as the Federal EV credit expires Tuesday. So I went to CarMax Friday night to get an offer on my current vehicle and then to a particular chevy dealership that had a car matching my wants (other than AWD, but in Texas, I'd have better luck finding a Unicorn). Test drove the car, really liked it. Sat down with the salesman he went away for 15-20 minutes to "run the numbers." He came back with a trade-in offer at least $3k and closer to 4 less than CarMax offered me (nearly $3k less than KBB predicted) and a lease payment twice what GM's website had estimated with no down payment. Needless to say I demanded my key and left, highly insulted. I emailed my experience to the Customer Experience dept and they came back with they want to make it right and are looking into my concerns. We'll see if they do anything tomorrow, either way on Wednesday a Google review with the full experience and response will go up.
Yes. Standard practice at a dealership, they take your key to assess your trade-in, it's not uncommon for them to not immediately give it back to keep you from sneaking out while they waste hours "running the numbers" several times to negotiate until you either say yes or demand to leave.
Remember Jesus, assholes? The guy you all claim to follow? He had things to say about people who had to put their piousness on display in front of everybody, and you know what? He didn’t approve.
Here it is IN HIS OWN WORDS:
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
The Gospel of St. Matthew, Chapter 6, Verse 5-6
If you believe in the Bible, there it is. Straight from the Savior’s mouth.
Right-wing christians don't bother with that 'private prayer', hippy stuff, silly! If they aren't making a spectacle of themselves, their gawd can't hear them.
Their god has resorted to ear plugs or headphones to drown out the caterwauling.
I think it would be very interesting if, when a legal case was brought about this, to bring up those passages in the Bible as a religious argument against public religious displays.
After all, they want to force their religious beliefs on everybody else. Why shouldn’t everybody else force their religious beliefs on the superduper Christians?
It’s not even everyone else forcing their religious beliefs on the Christians. It’s everyone else saying “Hey Christians, you should follow your own religious beliefs”.
My point exactly
I just put that passage down. The NIV version that is.
Run the Zamboni regardless. Problem solved.
Forget the Zamboni. Make the Christian players (whose parents are throwing tantrums) play last on the crappy ice.
Well played, sir, well played! I foresee future prayers: Please give us better ice to play on. BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA
They are children, after all. Safety first!
The children would not be doing this if their controllers, I mean parents were not encouraging them.
💯️🎯 Or their coaches.
Exactly. You think they wouldn't instantly be moved OFF of the ice? This way they wouldn't have a choice. Fuck catering to this bullshit.
Mandatory
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I4bbzm3uQ5Y&pp=0gcJCRsBo7VqN5tD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PrZ-J7D3k
Oh Behave!!
🤣 Deadpool is the answer to many of life's problems!
BWAH HA HA HA HA HA! Never seen this. (I would have used emojis but when I try to do this on my phone there's always a bunch of substack shit I have to go through. One of the many reasons I hate this site.)
NOGODZ uses characters from his keyboard when he can't uses smileys.
:) :( :'( ...
Gotcha, thanks. Forgot about old school!
🤣
Christian Fucking Privilege. This isn't even remotely an attack on Christians, and the persecution complex still refers its ugly head.
Any sensible rule that applies to everyone equally that also slightly inconveniences performative Christian Nazionalism is rage bait to these snowflakes. The game is over, get off the ice. Makes sense, applies to everyone, is only a minor inconvenience for any activity the teams want to do as part of the post game happenings. And since the Christians can no longer do their thing in the most visible space, they are being "persecuted". While the rule is on hold, some coach should get a bunch of pride flags for the players to wave as they do some laps.
How many of those kids are praying out of peer pressure or because they think it’s “tradition”? Moving the prayers off-ice gives those kids a chance to slip away. And that’s the real reason the evangelists are making a fuss.
90%
Again reminded of what Christopher Hitchens used to say, ""Those who are determined to be 'offended' will discover a provocation somewhere. We cannot possibly adjust enough to please the fanatics, and it is degrading to make the attempt".
The hockey league has a good, unanimously supported reason for moving people off the ice after a hockey game. NOBODY is denying christians - or anyone else - right to pray, they just can't do it center-ice - which is apparently more important to determined-to-be-offended crowd than kids on the sidelines doing the same activity. DO NOT CAVE, Minnesota Hockey! You can never satisfy the fanatics.
How about moving the prayer circle to the south end of the rink down by the goal, and the Zamboni starts at the north end?
Probably a non-starter. Zambonis have a POOR turning radius, and the typical running pattern for them is to go the length of the ice in a staggered ob-round path.
Again, you have kids who think they can arrogate the venue to themselves, failing to realize that they're NOT the only ones who use the ice, and that there is a schedule to be kept.
Self-involved. Plain and simple.
That's a good idea, but i think safety regulations require there to be no one on the ice when the Zamboni comes out.
Umm, NOT! That is ridiculous because of what Troublesh00ter said. It's religious privilege. Remember that? It's a couSIN to white privilege.
Prayers not at center ice just aren't as good, doncha know?
See how easy it is to find a solution if you're looking for a solution and not an issue?
Having driven a Zamboni, I can say if you don't follow the traditional pattern, that is, oval, it doesn't work.
Mmmm, goodie! Another Hitchens Quote of the Day for tomorrow!
Player-led, no adults participating. Yeah, right. And I've got Ocean-Front property for sale in Kansas.
In the next majpor San Andreas Fault earthquake, everything east of it will slide under the Atlantic Ocean. Kansas will be an underwater state.
People will always need land and they will pay through the nose to get it - noted philosopher Lex Luthor
I have dubbed the Christian youth hockey players The Mighty Dicks.
Can't these Christian nuts obey the very Jesus they claim to worship? Especially when he said, and I quote from Matthew 6:5-8 NIV,
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."
but I like pagans ;)
Merci beaucoup.
https://ibb.co/9mpc3jFX
They remind me of the 80s music videos.
I’m no theologian, but here’s my interpretation of this passage. It is directing followers to reject reality and nature which is not only beautiful and tender, but also violent and cruel. It is directing folks to be meek and make themselves small in order to control them (slave morality). It makes sense that this forces individuals to act out and disobey in order to regain some sort of power they feel they have lost.
In all honesty, I don't think the kids are hypocrites. It seems sincere on their part.
They can be sincere until the cows come home. The PROBLEM is that they're occupying the rink when the management wants to take what little time they have to repair the ice for the next group of skaters.
This isn't about sincerity. It's about respecting the venue and those who run it.
And the other players.
And if the other players also want to pray after a game? But, I am with you that they should get off the ice if they want to pray after a game.
Do kids get to play during Sunday school at the church instead of being brainwashed ? If not, then prayers have no place when players are on ice.
My reply was to OwossoHarpist who seemed to be saying that it was an issue of hypocrisy. I don't think they should have those prayers on the ice if it holds up other games but could be done somewhere else.
That's not the problem, or didn't you read Hemant post ?
He skimmed it and only saw what he wanted to see.
You didn't notice that my reply was regarding the supposed hypocrisy of the players but saw only what you wanted to see.
Wasn''t talking to you, genocide/ethnic cleansing denier.
Says the cherry picker.
When I was a kid the last thing I wanted to do was go to church, and all my friends felt the same way. We were pressured into it by adults...
You may well be right in your case but I've seen otherwise.
You are an academic, and you never heard about social conformity or peer pressure. How strange.
Sarcasm alert: Davy the wannabe nazis asshole is only an academic in his mind. Just like David Barton is a historian. And I am King of England!
Greetings, your majesty.
Jesus says they are hypocrites. Are you disagreeing with Jesus?
Btw: https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/25/Tv/video/amanpour-tom-fletcher-un-general-assembly
The text clearly states that Jesus was talking about people who were praying in public to be noticed by others. Personally, I'm not big on public prayers because so many hypocrites use them to push an agenda and to get attention.
Center ice. They want to be noticed.
Center ice is the position equidistant between both benches. The location makes sense as the easiest for both teams to get to.. But, I don't think they should pray on the ice after games.
Wrong again. The benches are on the same side of the rink. The closest point would be along the boards. Quit making lame excuses.
Praying in a church is public prayer.
Bullshit. Kids only do this crap because their parents brainwash them.
Sincerity=indoctrination.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-genocide-accusations-e6996472084cba5618e430d143f4b8d4
All I can say is that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. I've seen otherwise but I've also seen the indoctrination you refer to. I recall one situation while looking for a new church home after moving. During the service, I saw several kinds of psychological manipulation being engaged in by the minister and how the congregation was eagerly eating it up. When the minister asked for "all the forces of Satan to leave this assembly", I figured that was my cue and so I got up and walked out the door.
All xtian activity is psychological manipulation. I could see it at 10 years old when I rejected this utter nonsense of supernatural beings. It's why you ignore genocide. You belong to a cult.
You know, I've seen the same charge leveled against atheists. Instead of trying to label a group, I try to take people on their own. That's why even though we disagree some of my best friends are atheists.
Atheists knock on no doors, ask for no tithes, send no children to Sunday school, ask for no tax exemptions, do not try to limit the civil and legal rights of individuals and do not proselytize.
Stop lying. This is why people are abandoning your cult.
This comes off as innocent at first glance, but it is far more insidious than that. The backlash at asking the kids to move it off the ice coming from adults that aren’t a part of the league administration gives away the game. This is about holding the spectators hostage to the prayers, it’s about pressuring more kids into participating in the prayers. What happens to the kids who aren’t interested in this performative piety? Parents/spectators want to stay in the stands while their kids are still on the ice, or folks do like to watch the Zamboni, but now they have to sit through a prayer session as though they’re at a church. If this was about the kids they would be the ones speaking out. If it was about their own religious expression, they would be fine with moving to a safer, warmer, more comfortable with access to drinking water place for the prayers that can be longer and have more opportunity to be friendly with the other team. Nope, this is a performance for the stands and the kids who aren’t interested in praying in front of everyone.
Typical churchling mentality, giving themselves exemptions from the rules EVERYONE ELSE must abide by.
If the kids wanted to do a brief victory dance, they'd be told to clear the ice.
If the kids wanted to honor a particular player, they'd be told to clear the ice.
If the kids wanted to do ANYTHING after the game, they'd be told to clear the ice.
WHY? To stop wasting time & make way for next event!
Bet you that if the players were making muslim, hindu, buddhist, zoroastrian or whatever other kind of prayer, these churchlings that are complaining that they should be allowed pray & to waste the league's time would suddenly want everyone's right to prayers canceled.
Religionite arrogance must be stopped.
We desperately need TOTAL & PERMANENT Separation of Religion & State.
Some kind of flash mob performance would be cool. Are there hockey songs?
ETA and OT: The minor league baseball team in Savannah are called the Bananas. Savannah Bananas. Bright yellow uniforms but that’s not the point. Nice logo on their hat too but also not the point. Minor league baseball is partly baseball and partly family entertainment. The Bananas do lip synching routines on the field mid-game that are delightful.
The first one is from Pitch Perfect. The second is Dirty Dancing.
https://youtu.be/jPENkGvRnqM?si=C7s2e3F64u8Ln7gQ
https://youtu.be/395u3VzEFl4?si=B-HYOFjBlXtf8B-t
Wonderful! Thank you. How not boring!
Churchlings living the religionite assholery lifestyle, resulting in supreme assholiness.
BRAVO!!!
Now, where have I heard this before?
“ If you think a group prayer “loses its meaning” if you can’t do it publicly, then just admit this is about satisfying your ego, not about faith. There’s absolutely no reason anyone who wants to pray can’t do it off the ice, or in the locker room, or outside the rink with the other team.”
Hmmm…
During the marriage wars, of course. Christians of a certain sort were busy claiming that if those dirty homosexuals were allowed to marry each each other, their thoroughly heterosexual marriages, like Ted Haggard’s or Matt Schlappe’s marriages, were going to lose meaning. In fact, a few people went so far as to claim that if those dirty homosexuals were allowed to be married, they were simply going to end their own marriages, because marriage is a holy institution.
It’s funny, but they’ve never claimed this about other wholly holy marriages, like Trump’s or Gingrich’s, which turned out to be wholly holey as well.
How is your husband ? How many pious christian divorced because of you two this week ?
934 precisely, according to my Righteous-o-meter. We’re down from our record high 23,485 in 2024.
Slacker 😋
I know. Shame! Shame!
“This entire fake controversy is a reminder of how we live in a society where Christian activists twist ordinary, practical decisions into fictional assaults on their faith. They can’t tell the difference between genuine oppression and a minor inconvenience. For those who thrive on grievance, no policy is too small to spin into a culture war crusade.”
This pretty much sums it up. Everything is a grievance to these supposed “Christians”. Trump has created a society of loud mouthed obnoxious “poor me” Christians. I’ll bet my 401K that these same people would have an epic meltdown if a Muslim or Jewish person wanted to pray at the end of a hockey game.
Don't play games with jockeys. Homer found out the hard way.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BFNam6hxoG0/hqdefault.jpg
You ran like you were on fire, and no one could trample me better than you
It's strange what fear will make clumsy donkeys
do
I never dreamed that I'd mount an ass like you
And I never dreamed that I'd be trampled by an animal like you
Jockey gaaaaames.
No, I don't want to fall, with you
No, I don't want to fall
With you, with you 🎶
Hmph. Those who want to pray on center ice want respect for their religion. The question then becomes: do they have any respect for those who own and manage the ice rink and the fact that those praying are NOT the only ones who wish to use the ice?
Once again, we have Christians who insist on preferential treatment and cannot be bothered to note the exigencies of the environment they are praying in. They want to be SPECIAL, mostly because Jesus.
And consideration of others simply is not on the table for them.
The fuck is wrong with these people??
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/95884f07b165bfe08e78f0b71c8009c552ac61b9ea423a4d82eb3853c978f204.png
If they can't be special, then they are being horribly oppressed. At least, that's what their indoctrination has them believing.
Way OT: <personal rant>I got bit by the new car bug on Friday (for those who have never experienced this particular insect, it is pernicious, invasive and very expensive to get rid of) so I spent several hours doing research and playing with options to see if I could afford it as the Federal EV credit expires Tuesday. So I went to CarMax Friday night to get an offer on my current vehicle and then to a particular chevy dealership that had a car matching my wants (other than AWD, but in Texas, I'd have better luck finding a Unicorn). Test drove the car, really liked it. Sat down with the salesman he went away for 15-20 minutes to "run the numbers." He came back with a trade-in offer at least $3k and closer to 4 less than CarMax offered me (nearly $3k less than KBB predicted) and a lease payment twice what GM's website had estimated with no down payment. Needless to say I demanded my key and left, highly insulted. I emailed my experience to the Customer Experience dept and they came back with they want to make it right and are looking into my concerns. We'll see if they do anything tomorrow, either way on Wednesday a Google review with the full experience and response will go up.
</end rant>
". . .I demanded my key . . ."
Why was that necessary? Did they hold your car key hostage?
Yes. Standard practice at a dealership, they take your key to assess your trade-in, it's not uncommon for them to not immediately give it back to keep you from sneaking out while they waste hours "running the numbers" several times to negotiate until you either say yes or demand to leave.
Good luck.