I wish I could come up with something to say but Hemant said it all.
And to those who still believe that religion, especially the Christian one, instills morality? What does it take to get through to you that the exact opposite is true?
If this is "morality," I'll eat my hat. What it is is SUBMISSION to an authority which apparently cannot be bothered to care about the security and safety of the children it indoctrinates. In that regard, Bruckelmyer is easily as guilty as Massie is in this instance.
That will require even more cooking, and even more money for the extra special secret way to make it palatable. I will be expecting your check. You’ll thank me for it later. Praise Jesus.
Any person or institution that refuses to protect their children from a lifetime of pain, deserves, at the very least, to pay fucking TAXES and go directly to jail, do not collect $.01! Our most precious and vulnerable assets freely given to the monsters that would destroy them. It is unconscionable.
Unfortunately and predictably, the ones sticking around and, even worse, being attracted to it seem to be the more authoritarian types. Christian Post keeps celebrating an uptick in young men going to church (amidst a downtick by young women.). You just know this isn’t going to end well.
So long as believing Christians continue to attend services and tithe even in the face of endless crimes against children by the clergy, they will (and SHOULD be) considered enablers.
And even continuing to attend services held by these amoral piety peddlers while children are being violated is tantamount to them saying "I'm OK with that."
Yet the religious have the temerity to call atheists immoral.
I watched a video the other day of a man visiting his older parents in a memory care unit in a nursing home.
When he got to their room, their church's pastor and a friend were there. The son was pleased to see them, thinking they were just there to visit, since his parents hadn't been to the church in quite some time.
No, the pastor was there to ask for their tithe. Can you imagine??
Sadly yes. When my mom was house bound, a pastor from a church that she visited twice came to give her communion. I was suspicious so I hoovered in the hall. Sure enough, he wanted money.
Yes, yes, I can. As Hannah notes, this isn't exactly unusual, I've seen and heard stories just like that for years now. Pastors pass tales like this down as funny anecdotes to newer pastors, so future generations can keep the grift going. I've even heard stories of some priests refusing last rites until a donation is made. I"m honest enough to also tell you that I never actually saw that last one, but then, I've never been Catholic, either.
Despite these tales, the family and friends of the victim are pretty much certain nobody will believe them when they complain. All too often, they're right.
Oh, gee. Terrific, wonderful, the sin is washed away. 𝗪𝗛𝗔𝗧 𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗥𝗜𝗠𝗘 𝗢𝗙 𝗖𝗛𝗜𝗟𝗗 𝗔𝗕𝗨𝗦𝗘? We dealt with an incident like this not that long ago, and I had to point out the apparent break some churches make between sin and criminal violation. These places get so wrapped up in the idea of forgiveness that they lose sight of the fact that a crime has been committed, and in the case of Clint Massie, multiple crimes, before and after he was supposedly forgiven.
And possibly the worse crime was committed by Pastor Daryl Bruckelmyer, who seemed to prioritize forgiveness over justice, at the expense of the children. This brand of insanity has got to STOP.
It is a patriarchal system. The men are extra special and kids and women are lesser individuals undeserving of safety or the security of their own bodies. In general, I'm not so very much in favor of physical punishment, but emasculation does cure rape and kiddie diddling.
Even the Bible has passages where God punishingly and harshly dealt with unrepentant sinners engaging in false repentance just to seek forgiveness so that all seems to be well enough for them to go back to their sinful ways. He punishes them mercilessly. Never mind the "Forgive 70 x 7" and the "forgive or God won't forgive you" verses Jesus have said in the Bible.
Kid, he couldn’t help falling and penetrating you. He takes care of us! The world doesn’t owe you a living, he pays for your Cheerios! Hard-working men need to relax at the end of the day. Jesus forgives him, why can’t you? None of that happened, Miss Sarah Bernhardt!
Verbatim transcript of nonsexual assaults. Inter alia I was knocked unconscious a half-dozen times, propelled through a second-story plate glass window by an assailant a hundred pounds heavier than I was during Manson Summer. It’s all about control, but I thought I was bad. I spent the equivalent of a beachfront bungalow in therapy learning otherwise.
Thank you so much. For forty years I’ve been married to a prince who treats me accordingly. I’ve gone from starting my running-away fund at nine with deposits from the neighborhood’s bottles, my sticky donated monopoly. I now clink with Tiffany gold bangles, which my securely loved granddaughter knows will be hers.
None of this sat and sits well with my family of origin. Yesterday I received a copy of my sperm donor’s 2015 estate and will, hence the outburst. The baroque language of disinheritance proves I inherited his considerable flair for words, which I try to use for good not evil. Ironically one of the favorite sayings of the man whose name I kept was, “Man makes his own heaven and hell on earth.” Therapy, kids!
I’m sorry for everything that happened to you, but it sounds like you’ve done what you could with it.
I had a client once who referred to her father as “the sperm donor”. She absolutely detested him with every fiber of her being. I can just imagine what you feel. You are better off rid of them
I beat you by about 20 years. After years of trying to communicate with my parents, I finally gave up, because I realized the problem was not my being gay, the problem was our entire relationship. The good news was I didn’t have to waste a lot of time trying to fix what they weren’t interested in fixing
“Take off that gloomy mask of tragedy, that’s not your style. You’ll feel so good that you’ll be glad you decided to smile,” sings my honeyboy and predecessor in recovery Dick Van Dyke, still stepping in time.
And people wonder why we leave religion. Abuse of power, secrecy, coverups, victim shaming. How anyone can believe these are holy men inspired by a deity is beyond me.
The predators go where the prey are using faith as a cloak for their evil. It's not surprising then that people reject religion when the religious groups don't take steps to protect the kids from these wolves.
They never ever repent, David. Not the perpetrators, not the clergy who enable it, not the people in the pews. They always do what happened here, excuse and forgive, and, most of all, forget. The religious are always surprised when it happens, even when it has happened so often before. They say it’s a one off, ignoring the systemic enabling and coverups. This is what the foundation of your religion does, it is setup to be the place where abusers can have access, it provides them victims who will never question, it creates cover for the abuse, it has an excuse for every abuse, it tells victims it their fault, it allows abuse to continue even after it’s discovered, and most of all it never truly expects the abuser to stop. Repentance is not real.
I see your points. It doesn't have to be that way but that's the way it is in so many churches and religious groups. The corruption reeks to heaven. Repentance should mean not just asking for forgiveness or seeking to change one ways but also the willingness to accept the punishment for your actions. Sigh.
The problem, David, is that religion pretends to be a holy activity, when it is simply yet another past time in the sociological sense. When the guardians of morality act immorally, why would you take anything they say seriously. You would have to be seriously drugged to fall for the lines “this is what God wants and not doing it will violate God’s will.”
It’s so easy to both lay the blame on God‘s will, while ignoring the implications of saying that it is God‘s will.
But don’t despair. This story is full of people who managed to ignore crime, compassion, empathy, responsibility, morality, and their own deeply morally corrupt belief system.
Far more interesting to me then the people leaving the belief system are the ones that are staying in that belief system. But that is the nature of authoritarian belief systems, isn’t it? Check your morality and empathy and intelligence in at the door, and perhaps leave a nice tip for the compassion-check girl. She doesn’t get paid much.
I believe that I have to be responsible to God and that means not blindly following authority be it religious or secular. About the only good coming out of these situations is if it gets people to not give something a get out of jail free card just because it's religious.
This is why Evangelical Christians were the perfect group to herd together to support Trump when the Christian Nationalists began their campaign to destroy democracy in the US.
Forgiveness from their god is the only thing they care about because it ensures them a place in Heaven, no matter what Hell they create on Earth.
I suspect that many of them will be surprised when Jesus tells them that he never knew them. How can you be fit for Heaven if you've raised hell on earth?
But this is what I say about moral corruption, David. They believe in the power structure of the church, not what they claim to believe about God, Jesus, and redemption. This is moral corruption of the deepest, most pernicious, and simultaneously obvious and subtle sort. They have become that which they hate…
They also conveniently ignore the fact that a crime has been committed, a crime for which there are real consequences and repercussions ... IF it is reported to local law enforcement, and the perpetrator is arrested, tried, and convicted.
Oh, but that is not what Yahweh wants, according to this particular pastor.
Absolutely. “Obey the civil authorities because they are instituted by God” is one of many passages that they somehow managed to forget, along with all that nonsense about millstones. Who has a millstone anymore?
Belief in imaginary bullshit is how these crimes occur and are justified by your cult. If your jesus existed and allowed this happen then he would be either impotent and not worthy of worship or evil and not worthy of worship. That you still belong to this cult of child rapists is a reflection of your own lack of character.
Sadly that is too complex for most cult members to process and the ones that are able to, either ignore or justify it or best case scenario, they leave religion behind.
Believing in fairy tales usually leads to fairy tale type results happening. Like avoiding jail, "being protected by your loyal followers".....all great for children's stories, not so great in adult contexts. Lies & fallacies lead to more outrageous lies & fallacies.
Given all the grief you've experienced at the hands of Christians, I understand your points. I believe that God will hold these holy hypocrites to account. I don't justify sexual abuse but it is rife within religious groups. I am sorry for all the harm done by these wolves.
If you were truly concerned or sorry, you would see your cult for the authoritarian crime syndicate that it is and that since your 'god' does nothing to stop these crimes, then your 'god' is a fiction that puts people in danger on a daily basis at the hands of the 'faithful.'.
I am increasingly seeing how corrupted the church is in the United States. I expect that those responsible will eventually experience God's wrath but in the meantime I must do what I can to fight against that evil. Again, I am sorry for all the "love" shown you by "good" religious people.
David, I appreciate your sentiments. Truly. But why is God waiting for them to experience his wrath? He could do it right now. He could prevent each of those children from being molested, but he does not. He could expose all of the molesters, but he does not.
It’s the human agency in each of these caseS that does something. Not God. And certainly, not God’s churches.
This year, having added additional sources to my newsfeed, I am guessing that there will be close to 500 of these pastors, professional Christians, and pastor adjacent Christians who will be arrested, or convicted, or sentenced for their crimes, mostly against children, often against women, occasionally against men. The only time the churches seemed to be outraged as when it involves money.
There is corruption for you.
I would put it this way. Your faith is not something I’m going to question. But you’re acceptance that someday God will do something about this is something that I do question. The problem is in fact the churches, the power structures, the money, the religious megalomania that infests them like brain worms in a Kennedy.
The concept of "forgive and forget" is bullshit. There are people in my life who were complete assholes (no where near the extent of these pedos though). I don't forgive them, whatever that actually means, because it doesn't do anything. I don't obsess about them, but if the name comes up, I remember "Yeah, that guy was an asshole. Fuck him."
Reading this on my first cuppa, and what comes to mind but Vachel Lindsay’s “General William Booth enters into heaven.”
Booth led boldly with his big bass drum—
(Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?)
The Saints smiled gravely and they said: “He’s come.”
(Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?)
Walking lepers followed, rank on rank,
Lurching bravoes from the ditches dank,
Drabs from the alleyways and drug fiends pale—
Minds still passion-ridden, soul-powers frail:—
Vermin-eaten saints with mouldy breath,
Unwashed legions with the ways of Death—
(Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?)
[BANJOS]
Every slum had sent its half-a-score
The round world over. (Booth had groaned for more.)
Every banner that the wide world flies
Bloomed with glory and transcendent dyes.
Big-voiced lasses made their banjos bang,
Tranced, fanatical they shrieked and sang:—
“Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?”
Hallelujah! It was queer to see
Bull-necked convicts with that land make free.
Loons with trumpets blowed a blare, blare, blare
On, on upward thro’ the golden air!
(Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?)
But why not? Getting washed in the blood of the lamb, the blood of reconciliation of sin, that that’s what the story is all about. Christianity says that you can clear your mind of any atrocity, any sin, simply by apologizing to Jesus and saying that you will never ever ever do it again…
Until the next time. When you can lead boldly and enter into heaven, apologized to Jesus, and promise never to do it again… until the next time.
I’m beginning to see a pattern here.
“You can hear the preachers say in that video that of course they told the victims they could speak to law enforcement. But they also told those girls to forgive and forget, and bringing up the issue again was violating God’s will.” And here are the flaws in the dysfunctional authoritarian system that allow this abuse to go on for years and years and years. The girls are simply girls, and don’t matter. If he was molesting boys, then that would be very embarrassing to the church. So that wouldn’t receive any action, either, is my best guess. But it doesn’t matter in any case, because “violating God’s will” is the excuse they have always used without following it to its logical conclusion: it’s God‘s will that grown men sexually abuse children. The moral corruption does not bother them anywhere near as much as having an inkling that maybe they are not God’s BFF forever, or that God doesn’t really care about sin as much as he cares about the church.
The virulent organization was protecting itself.
I’m not talking about the moral corruption of molesting kids by itself. I’m talking about the moral corruption of not believing any of their own Christian rhetoric to begin with. Whether it’s the pastor or the abuser or the parents of the kids. Jesus said very clearly that Millstones should be employed for people who harm children. Jesus did not say that if you forget about the sin you can forget about the millstones. But it suited the pastor, because he, his church, and his religion came out smelling like they were washed in the blood of a lamb. It suited the abuser, because he escaped punishment and got his tiny rocks off. It suited the parents for all of those reasons, plus not having to deal with the embarrassment of not having a pure daughter— you can bet that’s in there somewhere— or having to question their religious beliefs. And I’m going to guess that it even suited the molested girls, confirming in their own minds that they were sinful and dirty because why else would he be molesting them, and besides, they didn’t maintain their purity, which was God’s will.
God is so easy to con.
Corruption, corruption, and more corruption. They ALL became that which they should have hated. And as the television program “breaking bad” showed clearly, once corruption begins, it spreads and spreads and spreads to everyone, innocent and guilty alike. Everyone that knew walter either was corrupted, or dead. Walter White’s final act of redemption was saving the boy that he appeared to be in love with, and taking out the corrupted evil doers that he had himself created.
ALL OF THIS IS NOT ABOUT PROTECTING THE KIDS. ALL OF THIS IS ABOUT PROTECTING THE CHURCH, PROTECTING THE FAITH, AND PROTECTING THEIR OWN IDEAS ABOUT ALL OF IT.
Back to the rest of the world for just a moment. This is what I have been writing about in the age of Trump: the moral corruption that infests so many organizations, whether it’s the Republican Party or the church in general, or the presidency. In the 233 years that we’ve had a president of these United States, we have never had a president referred to a member of the press as “piggy“. We’ve never had a president claim that he lost an election due to fraud. We’ve never had an president that called for the execution of political opponents who merely disagreed with him. We’ve never had a convicted felon, at least before the president became president. We’d never had a president who bragged about sexual assault. We’ve never had a president who was known for screwing a prostitute while his third wife was pregnant with his fifth child. We’ve never had a president whom we have known to be an associate of known sex traffickers. We’ve never had a president who was effectively called a rapist by a judge. We’ve never had a president who declared bankruptcy six times, and yet was still somehow a billionaire. We’ve never had a president who threatened to declare war on our allies.
I’m used to the Christians in my life never apologizing or taking responsibility for anything horrific they do or say, EVER. The claim is always that only God’s forgiveness is needed, not yours. Fine and fuck off out of here. Since this Trump and Epstein scandal has exploded I’ve seen the same preaching from Christians about the importance of forgiveness making its rounds. Forcing a victim of abuse to meet with their abuser and forgive them takes the prize for masterful delusions and moral bankruptcy. We do not forgive and we won’t soon forget and I’m ok with that.
I'm curious. As a kid, how did you feel about evangelicals? Were you taken in? Did you laugh? I went to church a handful of times as a kid and couldn't have been more bored.
Seriously, I am just curious if you have an inclination to share your thoughts.
I had a very close friend who invited me to church with her, and I felt accepted and enjoyed the youth group... As I got a little bit older, I found a few other girlfriends in the church and became close friends with one girl in particular and her family... Her parents became like another set of parents to me, and I was invited on family vacations, etc... Apparently, I became close enough to the family that Daddy Dearest decided he could sexually assault me and I wouldn't say anything about it because he "said he was sorry." I was twelve years old. When I got up the courage to tell my own mom and dad, the Mommy Dearest had the nerve to blame me for being provocative and flirtatious... They were fine, upstanding members of the church community, and I was a TWELVE YEAR OLD JEZEBEL... Some followers of Christ...
I mentioned a rape yesterday here. Being a kid, and getting no support, I hung out in the fuckers waiting room to see if he may have been raping other girls. I thought so, because his clients were all teenagers or tweens, and some of them looked traumatized when they came out of the office. I was so young, I didn't know what to do with the information. BTW, he was a psychologist, hence the waiting room.
When the police officer told Brucklemyer that he was a mandated reporter, she thought he would cave and do the right thing, but what he heard was “don’t ever report because you have hundreds of cases that you didn’t report and are now liable for”.
“But they also told those girls to forgive and forget, and bringing up the issue again was violating God’s will. Even if they weren’t preventing the girls from going to the cops, they very much nudged them in the opposite direction,”
When you’re holding a gun to someone and you tell them they can give you their money or not, you are forcing them to give you their money. When it’s about threatening their eternal soul, the eternal soul they fully and completely believe is real, it’s just a nudge into compliance? Even if it wasn’t about their eternal soul, it was very much about their position within the church, how the church will treat them for noncompliance, shunning and social ostracism are effective tools abused by authoritarian leaders, this coercion is often recognized by the law, it should be recognized here as well. That the forgive and forget policy was stemming even from these victims’ parents is even more egregious, how would a child be able to push back against that? How would they even recognize that it is not right when their parents negotiated this policy for them, being the only people they thought were their protectors? In a subculture that relies so heavily on the authority structure, these girls had no choice in their victimhood. The church needs to be held accountable, and even their parents to a slightly smaller degree. All these people failed them, but did not fail their own agenda. This is not a bug in the church system, it is working as designed. When your morality begins and ends with abject obedience, you have no morality.
This is what happens when people are SO DAMNED AFRAID of a god that cannot be demonstrated that they are willing to consider any action ... or INACTION.
If Bruckelmyer is a mandated reporter, why isn't he facing prison time? Why did Massie only get 7 years for multiple counts with multiple victims? Christian Fucking Privilege really sucks.
I wish I could come up with something to say but Hemant said it all.
And to those who still believe that religion, especially the Christian one, instills morality? What does it take to get through to you that the exact opposite is true?
If this is "morality," I'll eat my hat. What it is is SUBMISSION to an authority which apparently cannot be bothered to care about the security and safety of the children it indoctrinates. In that regard, Bruckelmyer is easily as guilty as Massie is in this instance.
But it is morality. It’s Christian morality. As Mrs. Olsen said, “Dot’s de richest kind.”
If you will send me five dollars, I will send you a delicious recipe for stewed hat.
Thanks, but it's an insubstantial hat ... not unlike the dragon in Carl Sagan's garage! 🐲
That will require even more cooking, and even more money for the extra special secret way to make it palatable. I will be expecting your check. You’ll thank me for it later. Praise Jesus.
I will be sure to write you a check. A VERY SPECIAL check, which is of the same nature as the hat I mentioned. 😝
They're probably in Michelle Bachmann's old district. The Alabama of Minnesota.
That's the beauty and simplicity of the god delusion. It enables people do harmful things in the name of their imaginary deity.
It is EXACTLY what Jesus would do. Ah, the irony.
Any person or institution that refuses to protect their children from a lifetime of pain, deserves, at the very least, to pay fucking TAXES and go directly to jail, do not collect $.01! Our most precious and vulnerable assets freely given to the monsters that would destroy them. It is unconscionable.
I’m going to come up with something..
EXCELLENT !
Thanks. We see the religious leaving their churches in droves. Just wish it were faster and in vastly greater numbers.
Unfortunately and predictably, the ones sticking around and, even worse, being attracted to it seem to be the more authoritarian types. Christian Post keeps celebrating an uptick in young men going to church (amidst a downtick by young women.). You just know this isn’t going to end well.
You can imagine how sad I am for these poor churches. Fewer wimmin? Who's gonna bring the vittles.
I wonder how long the young men will stick around once they realize they are not in a target-rich environment.
I imagine a church full of incels. I'm sure they will find one woman to blame for their shitty lives.
So long as believing Christians continue to attend services and tithe even in the face of endless crimes against children by the clergy, they will (and SHOULD be) considered enablers.
NOGODZ20…I agree…If you tithe..you support it!
And even continuing to attend services held by these amoral piety peddlers while children are being violated is tantamount to them saying "I'm OK with that."
Yet the religious have the temerity to call atheists immoral.
I watched a video the other day of a man visiting his older parents in a memory care unit in a nursing home.
When he got to their room, their church's pastor and a friend were there. The son was pleased to see them, thinking they were just there to visit, since his parents hadn't been to the church in quite some time.
No, the pastor was there to ask for their tithe. Can you imagine??
Sadly yes. When my mom was house bound, a pastor from a church that she visited twice came to give her communion. I was suspicious so I hoovered in the hall. Sure enough, he wanted money.
Money, as they say, is the root of all evil. I guess people in nursing homes & nearing their own end seem vulnerable to—shall we say—‘suggestion’.
Yes, yes, I can. As Hannah notes, this isn't exactly unusual, I've seen and heard stories just like that for years now. Pastors pass tales like this down as funny anecdotes to newer pastors, so future generations can keep the grift going. I've even heard stories of some priests refusing last rites until a donation is made. I"m honest enough to also tell you that I never actually saw that last one, but then, I've never been Catholic, either.
Despite these tales, the family and friends of the victim are pretty much certain nobody will believe them when they complain. All too often, they're right.
I have no trouble imagining at all.
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑖𝑛, 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑟𝑑𝑒𝑑 𝑐𝑎𝑙𝑙, 𝑤𝑎𝑠 “𝑤𝑎𝑠ℎ𝑒𝑑 𝑎𝑤𝑎𝑦 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑏𝑙𝑜𝑜𝑑 𝑜𝑓 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑐𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛.
Oh, gee. Terrific, wonderful, the sin is washed away. 𝗪𝗛𝗔𝗧 𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗥𝗜𝗠𝗘 𝗢𝗙 𝗖𝗛𝗜𝗟𝗗 𝗔𝗕𝗨𝗦𝗘? We dealt with an incident like this not that long ago, and I had to point out the apparent break some churches make between sin and criminal violation. These places get so wrapped up in the idea of forgiveness that they lose sight of the fact that a crime has been committed, and in the case of Clint Massie, multiple crimes, before and after he was supposedly forgiven.
And possibly the worse crime was committed by Pastor Daryl Bruckelmyer, who seemed to prioritize forgiveness over justice, at the expense of the children. This brand of insanity has got to STOP.
It is a patriarchal system. The men are extra special and kids and women are lesser individuals undeserving of safety or the security of their own bodies. In general, I'm not so very much in favor of physical punishment, but emasculation does cure rape and kiddie diddling.
Even the Bible has passages where God punishingly and harshly dealt with unrepentant sinners engaging in false repentance just to seek forgiveness so that all seems to be well enough for them to go back to their sinful ways. He punishes them mercilessly. Never mind the "Forgive 70 x 7" and the "forgive or God won't forgive you" verses Jesus have said in the Bible.
Forgiveness doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for bad actions.
Yet, it's what story after story reported by Hemant shown. The common point ? All christians.
TBF, since kkkristianity is the predominant religion in the US, it gets reported on the most.
Not quite my point, which is the hypocrisy.
I have to agree with you. The corruption reeks among us.
This is exactly what this church means by forgiveness, though. And this is not the only church, nor is it in the minority.
I agree. You are right.
Truth right here.
Kid, he couldn’t help falling and penetrating you. He takes care of us! The world doesn’t owe you a living, he pays for your Cheerios! Hard-working men need to relax at the end of the day. Jesus forgives him, why can’t you? None of that happened, Miss Sarah Bernhardt!
Verbatim transcript of nonsexual assaults. Inter alia I was knocked unconscious a half-dozen times, propelled through a second-story plate glass window by an assailant a hundred pounds heavier than I was during Manson Summer. It’s all about control, but I thought I was bad. I spent the equivalent of a beachfront bungalow in therapy learning otherwise.
I'm very sorry about what happened to you. I hope those responsible end up receiving prison time for it.
Thank you so much. For forty years I’ve been married to a prince who treats me accordingly. I’ve gone from starting my running-away fund at nine with deposits from the neighborhood’s bottles, my sticky donated monopoly. I now clink with Tiffany gold bangles, which my securely loved granddaughter knows will be hers.
None of this sat and sits well with my family of origin. Yesterday I received a copy of my sperm donor’s 2015 estate and will, hence the outburst. The baroque language of disinheritance proves I inherited his considerable flair for words, which I try to use for good not evil. Ironically one of the favorite sayings of the man whose name I kept was, “Man makes his own heaven and hell on earth.” Therapy, kids!
I’m sorry for everything that happened to you, but it sounds like you’ve done what you could with it.
I had a client once who referred to her father as “the sperm donor”. She absolutely detested him with every fiber of her being. I can just imagine what you feel. You are better off rid of them
Cut mine from my life in 2001. Best decision ever.
I beat you by about 20 years. After years of trying to communicate with my parents, I finally gave up, because I realized the problem was not my being gay, the problem was our entire relationship. The good news was I didn’t have to waste a lot of time trying to fix what they weren’t interested in fixing
In 1981, I didn't even walk yet 🤣
I’m so sorry.
You survived. iIf you have a happy life and he knows about it, that's the best revenge after jail for life (both would be better).
“Take off that gloomy mask of tragedy, that’s not your style. You’ll feel so good that you’ll be glad you decided to smile,” sings my honeyboy and predecessor in recovery Dick Van Dyke, still stepping in time.
I'm sorry. We deserve better. I don't know what else to say other than I am truly sorry.
And people wonder why we leave religion. Abuse of power, secrecy, coverups, victim shaming. How anyone can believe these are holy men inspired by a deity is beyond me.
The predators go where the prey are using faith as a cloak for their evil. It's not surprising then that people reject religion when the religious groups don't take steps to protect the kids from these wolves.
They never ever repent, David. Not the perpetrators, not the clergy who enable it, not the people in the pews. They always do what happened here, excuse and forgive, and, most of all, forget. The religious are always surprised when it happens, even when it has happened so often before. They say it’s a one off, ignoring the systemic enabling and coverups. This is what the foundation of your religion does, it is setup to be the place where abusers can have access, it provides them victims who will never question, it creates cover for the abuse, it has an excuse for every abuse, it tells victims it their fault, it allows abuse to continue even after it’s discovered, and most of all it never truly expects the abuser to stop. Repentance is not real.
Preach Val!
I see your points. It doesn't have to be that way but that's the way it is in so many churches and religious groups. The corruption reeks to heaven. Repentance should mean not just asking for forgiveness or seeking to change one ways but also the willingness to accept the punishment for your actions. Sigh.
The problem, David, is that religion pretends to be a holy activity, when it is simply yet another past time in the sociological sense. When the guardians of morality act immorally, why would you take anything they say seriously. You would have to be seriously drugged to fall for the lines “this is what God wants and not doing it will violate God’s will.”
It’s so easy to both lay the blame on God‘s will, while ignoring the implications of saying that it is God‘s will.
But don’t despair. This story is full of people who managed to ignore crime, compassion, empathy, responsibility, morality, and their own deeply morally corrupt belief system.
Far more interesting to me then the people leaving the belief system are the ones that are staying in that belief system. But that is the nature of authoritarian belief systems, isn’t it? Check your morality and empathy and intelligence in at the door, and perhaps leave a nice tip for the compassion-check girl. She doesn’t get paid much.
I believe that I have to be responsible to God and that means not blindly following authority be it religious or secular. About the only good coming out of these situations is if it gets people to not give something a get out of jail free card just because it's religious.
This is why Evangelical Christians were the perfect group to herd together to support Trump when the Christian Nationalists began their campaign to destroy democracy in the US.
Forgiveness from their god is the only thing they care about because it ensures them a place in Heaven, no matter what Hell they create on Earth.
I suspect that many of them will be surprised when Jesus tells them that he never knew them. How can you be fit for Heaven if you've raised hell on earth?
But this is what I say about moral corruption, David. They believe in the power structure of the church, not what they claim to believe about God, Jesus, and redemption. This is moral corruption of the deepest, most pernicious, and simultaneously obvious and subtle sort. They have become that which they hate…
Allegedly.
They also conveniently ignore the fact that a crime has been committed, a crime for which there are real consequences and repercussions ... IF it is reported to local law enforcement, and the perpetrator is arrested, tried, and convicted.
Oh, but that is not what Yahweh wants, according to this particular pastor.
Absolutely. “Obey the civil authorities because they are instituted by God” is one of many passages that they somehow managed to forget, along with all that nonsense about millstones. Who has a millstone anymore?
I agree.
Belief in imaginary bullshit is how these crimes occur and are justified by your cult. If your jesus existed and allowed this happen then he would be either impotent and not worthy of worship or evil and not worthy of worship. That you still belong to this cult of child rapists is a reflection of your own lack of character.
However hard they try, the problem of evil is the killer of omnibenevolent gods:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Epicurus - centuries before Jesus
Sadly that is too complex for most cult members to process and the ones that are able to, either ignore or justify it or best case scenario, they leave religion behind.
One of my favorite quotes re religion. Along with this from Seneca :
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
Believing in fairy tales usually leads to fairy tale type results happening. Like avoiding jail, "being protected by your loyal followers".....all great for children's stories, not so great in adult contexts. Lies & fallacies lead to more outrageous lies & fallacies.
👆
Given all the grief you've experienced at the hands of Christians, I understand your points. I believe that God will hold these holy hypocrites to account. I don't justify sexual abuse but it is rife within religious groups. I am sorry for all the harm done by these wolves.
If you were truly concerned or sorry, you would see your cult for the authoritarian crime syndicate that it is and that since your 'god' does nothing to stop these crimes, then your 'god' is a fiction that puts people in danger on a daily basis at the hands of the 'faithful.'.
I am increasingly seeing how corrupted the church is in the United States. I expect that those responsible will eventually experience God's wrath but in the meantime I must do what I can to fight against that evil. Again, I am sorry for all the "love" shown you by "good" religious people.
Elsewhere, I have mentioned the Magdelene Laundries - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_laundries_in_Ireland
Perhaps you ought to read about them. It isn't just in the US that loathsome actions are committed by the religious.
In the UK, the actions of John Smyth and the cover ups led to the resignation of the Archbishop of Canterbury - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smyth_(barrister)
David, I appreciate your sentiments. Truly. But why is God waiting for them to experience his wrath? He could do it right now. He could prevent each of those children from being molested, but he does not. He could expose all of the molesters, but he does not.
It’s the human agency in each of these caseS that does something. Not God. And certainly, not God’s churches.
This year, having added additional sources to my newsfeed, I am guessing that there will be close to 500 of these pastors, professional Christians, and pastor adjacent Christians who will be arrested, or convicted, or sentenced for their crimes, mostly against children, often against women, occasionally against men. The only time the churches seemed to be outraged as when it involves money.
There is corruption for you.
I would put it this way. Your faith is not something I’m going to question. But you’re acceptance that someday God will do something about this is something that I do question. The problem is in fact the churches, the power structures, the money, the religious megalomania that infests them like brain worms in a Kennedy.
🎯
Do I really need to say it? 𝗡𝗢𝗧. 𝗔. 𝗗𝗥𝗔𝗚. 𝗤𝗨𝗘𝗘𝗡.
No drag queens, no LGBTQs. Just cis-genders who love to judge others outside of their religious anthills.
The concept of "forgive and forget" is bullshit. There are people in my life who were complete assholes (no where near the extent of these pedos though). I don't forgive them, whatever that actually means, because it doesn't do anything. I don't obsess about them, but if the name comes up, I remember "Yeah, that guy was an asshole. Fuck him."
Reading this on my first cuppa, and what comes to mind but Vachel Lindsay’s “General William Booth enters into heaven.”
Booth led boldly with his big bass drum—
(Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?)
The Saints smiled gravely and they said: “He’s come.”
(Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?)
Walking lepers followed, rank on rank,
Lurching bravoes from the ditches dank,
Drabs from the alleyways and drug fiends pale—
Minds still passion-ridden, soul-powers frail:—
Vermin-eaten saints with mouldy breath,
Unwashed legions with the ways of Death—
(Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?)
[BANJOS]
Every slum had sent its half-a-score
The round world over. (Booth had groaned for more.)
Every banner that the wide world flies
Bloomed with glory and transcendent dyes.
Big-voiced lasses made their banjos bang,
Tranced, fanatical they shrieked and sang:—
“Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?”
Hallelujah! It was queer to see
Bull-necked convicts with that land make free.
Loons with trumpets blowed a blare, blare, blare
On, on upward thro’ the golden air!
(Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?)
But why not? Getting washed in the blood of the lamb, the blood of reconciliation of sin, that that’s what the story is all about. Christianity says that you can clear your mind of any atrocity, any sin, simply by apologizing to Jesus and saying that you will never ever ever do it again…
Until the next time. When you can lead boldly and enter into heaven, apologized to Jesus, and promise never to do it again… until the next time.
I’m beginning to see a pattern here.
“You can hear the preachers say in that video that of course they told the victims they could speak to law enforcement. But they also told those girls to forgive and forget, and bringing up the issue again was violating God’s will.” And here are the flaws in the dysfunctional authoritarian system that allow this abuse to go on for years and years and years. The girls are simply girls, and don’t matter. If he was molesting boys, then that would be very embarrassing to the church. So that wouldn’t receive any action, either, is my best guess. But it doesn’t matter in any case, because “violating God’s will” is the excuse they have always used without following it to its logical conclusion: it’s God‘s will that grown men sexually abuse children. The moral corruption does not bother them anywhere near as much as having an inkling that maybe they are not God’s BFF forever, or that God doesn’t really care about sin as much as he cares about the church.
The virulent organization was protecting itself.
I’m not talking about the moral corruption of molesting kids by itself. I’m talking about the moral corruption of not believing any of their own Christian rhetoric to begin with. Whether it’s the pastor or the abuser or the parents of the kids. Jesus said very clearly that Millstones should be employed for people who harm children. Jesus did not say that if you forget about the sin you can forget about the millstones. But it suited the pastor, because he, his church, and his religion came out smelling like they were washed in the blood of a lamb. It suited the abuser, because he escaped punishment and got his tiny rocks off. It suited the parents for all of those reasons, plus not having to deal with the embarrassment of not having a pure daughter— you can bet that’s in there somewhere— or having to question their religious beliefs. And I’m going to guess that it even suited the molested girls, confirming in their own minds that they were sinful and dirty because why else would he be molesting them, and besides, they didn’t maintain their purity, which was God’s will.
God is so easy to con.
Corruption, corruption, and more corruption. They ALL became that which they should have hated. And as the television program “breaking bad” showed clearly, once corruption begins, it spreads and spreads and spreads to everyone, innocent and guilty alike. Everyone that knew walter either was corrupted, or dead. Walter White’s final act of redemption was saving the boy that he appeared to be in love with, and taking out the corrupted evil doers that he had himself created.
ALL OF THIS IS NOT ABOUT PROTECTING THE KIDS. ALL OF THIS IS ABOUT PROTECTING THE CHURCH, PROTECTING THE FAITH, AND PROTECTING THEIR OWN IDEAS ABOUT ALL OF IT.
Back to the rest of the world for just a moment. This is what I have been writing about in the age of Trump: the moral corruption that infests so many organizations, whether it’s the Republican Party or the church in general, or the presidency. In the 233 years that we’ve had a president of these United States, we have never had a president referred to a member of the press as “piggy“. We’ve never had a president claim that he lost an election due to fraud. We’ve never had an president that called for the execution of political opponents who merely disagreed with him. We’ve never had a convicted felon, at least before the president became president. We’d never had a president who bragged about sexual assault. We’ve never had a president who was known for screwing a prostitute while his third wife was pregnant with his fifth child. We’ve never had a president whom we have known to be an associate of known sex traffickers. We’ve never had a president who was effectively called a rapist by a judge. We’ve never had a president who declared bankruptcy six times, and yet was still somehow a billionaire. We’ve never had a president who threatened to declare war on our allies.
End of rant.
Well done young man.
Thanks. Especially for calling me young. Nobody’s done that the last 30 years or so.
I'm pretty young if I avoid mirrors and my body.
I’m used to the Christians in my life never apologizing or taking responsibility for anything horrific they do or say, EVER. The claim is always that only God’s forgiveness is needed, not yours. Fine and fuck off out of here. Since this Trump and Epstein scandal has exploded I’ve seen the same preaching from Christians about the importance of forgiveness making its rounds. Forcing a victim of abuse to meet with their abuser and forgive them takes the prize for masterful delusions and moral bankruptcy. We do not forgive and we won’t soon forget and I’m ok with that.
This, Linda! Same! I grew up evangelical, so I know the horrible truth of it all... Brokenness and strife in the name of Jesus...
I'm curious. As a kid, how did you feel about evangelicals? Were you taken in? Did you laugh? I went to church a handful of times as a kid and couldn't have been more bored.
Seriously, I am just curious if you have an inclination to share your thoughts.
I had a very close friend who invited me to church with her, and I felt accepted and enjoyed the youth group... As I got a little bit older, I found a few other girlfriends in the church and became close friends with one girl in particular and her family... Her parents became like another set of parents to me, and I was invited on family vacations, etc... Apparently, I became close enough to the family that Daddy Dearest decided he could sexually assault me and I wouldn't say anything about it because he "said he was sorry." I was twelve years old. When I got up the courage to tell my own mom and dad, the Mommy Dearest had the nerve to blame me for being provocative and flirtatious... They were fine, upstanding members of the church community, and I was a TWELVE YEAR OLD JEZEBEL... Some followers of Christ...
Holy shit. That's horrible. I'm sorry that happened to you and you were blamed.
I was abused and raped as a child, received no support, even from my mom.
I share that just to say I feel you.
"What’s the right way to reconcile with a person who abused you when you were a child?"
Attend their parole hearings to prevent release and if they are released, regularly report their actions to their probation officer.
I mentioned a rape yesterday here. Being a kid, and getting no support, I hung out in the fuckers waiting room to see if he may have been raping other girls. I thought so, because his clients were all teenagers or tweens, and some of them looked traumatized when they came out of the office. I was so young, I didn't know what to do with the information. BTW, he was a psychologist, hence the waiting room.
When the police officer told Brucklemyer that he was a mandated reporter, she thought he would cave and do the right thing, but what he heard was “don’t ever report because you have hundreds of cases that you didn’t report and are now liable for”.
“But they also told those girls to forgive and forget, and bringing up the issue again was violating God’s will. Even if they weren’t preventing the girls from going to the cops, they very much nudged them in the opposite direction,”
When you’re holding a gun to someone and you tell them they can give you their money or not, you are forcing them to give you their money. When it’s about threatening their eternal soul, the eternal soul they fully and completely believe is real, it’s just a nudge into compliance? Even if it wasn’t about their eternal soul, it was very much about their position within the church, how the church will treat them for noncompliance, shunning and social ostracism are effective tools abused by authoritarian leaders, this coercion is often recognized by the law, it should be recognized here as well. That the forgive and forget policy was stemming even from these victims’ parents is even more egregious, how would a child be able to push back against that? How would they even recognize that it is not right when their parents negotiated this policy for them, being the only people they thought were their protectors? In a subculture that relies so heavily on the authority structure, these girls had no choice in their victimhood. The church needs to be held accountable, and even their parents to a slightly smaller degree. All these people failed them, but did not fail their own agenda. This is not a bug in the church system, it is working as designed. When your morality begins and ends with abject obedience, you have no morality.
Disgusting and unbelievable - not just the church dudes but the parents. Failing utterly in their duty to protect their kids.
This is what happens when people are SO DAMNED AFRAID of a god that cannot be demonstrated that they are willing to consider any action ... or INACTION.
Christians — not perfect, just forgiven.
Let me fix that. Not perfect, just selfish, narcissistic, assholes.
If Bruckelmyer is a mandated reporter, why isn't he facing prison time? Why did Massie only get 7 years for multiple counts with multiple victims? Christian Fucking Privilege really sucks.
My first reaction. Xitian or not, child rapists get way too lenient sentences.
I’m wondering that too.
DECADES!!!
KC Catholic Diocese covered up sexual abuse by priest for decades, lawsuit says
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article312983584.html