First rule of guns. They are ALWAYS loaded (meaning treat them as such) and never aim them at what you don’t expect to shoot. This guy is an asshat. And danger.
The version I learned was "always treat a gun as if it's loaded, 𝘦𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 if you're sure it's not." Because the moment you're certain you're perfectly safe is 𝘦𝘹𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 when you start to act stupid. As we can plainly see in this display of testosterone-poisoned machismo, which is 𝘦𝘹𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 the kind of thing I'd expect to find in a story about a negligent discharge killing someone.
Talk about tone-deaf, never mind bringing a weapon supposedly to project the teachings of the "Prince of Peace." Thornton's behavior here is so beyond the pale that it beggars description (though Hemant does pretty well!). This doesn't even mention the old yet appropriate saw about the gun not being loaded until it goes off.
Even worse, where was the reaction from the congregation? Have they been so snookered by Thornton that they just go along with the gag? I was stunned when this first came to my attention and that reaction hasn't changed.
This topic was covered in a previous FA article. The first thing I mentioned is that "the gun is never loaded until it goes off."
Had that gun or the gun held by that guy in fatigues gone off, would there have been an arrest or would Thornton have tried to cover it up by turning his gun on his congregation to insure their silence or to insure that they say only what he wants them to say?
No, not Thornton but by the GQP and the NRA, which have been indoctrinating the population into worshipping guns enough to think this is normal behaviour.
Bloodthirsty and deranged. I mean, who brings a GUN to church, never mind using it as a part of a sermon, other than that one crazy sect that seems as devoted to their AR-15s are they supposedly are to their god.
Yep. First time I heard about them was in video by Tev (French only) about weird Asian sects and cults. It's not his usual focus*, I don't know why and how he researched it but it had perturbed him enough to make a video about it.
* Mostly his life as a French man in Japan, the cultural differences and his travels.
“ Please understand, that is a principle that needs to be employed when you use your faith. You have to overwhelm your enemy with a violent action of faith. You have got to come in loud and run out the unbelief. You have to get it to submit to you.”
It doesn’t sound to me like he’s merely high on God, but high on something that was causing a psychotic break of some sort. I hope the guns were OK. But it sounds like he’s babbling, not in tongues, but in gungues. But it also sounds like he truly believes that this unbelief is an act of defiance or rebellion against his magical buddy. He doesn’t understand we simply do not believe his claims in exactly the same way that he doesn’t believe in Koschei the Deathless, Who Made Things As They Are. Or in the unicorn in my garden.
“ Right. Praise the Lord. Can’t help myself sometimes.”
But the experts aren’t helping, either. “ “Frankly, if I was there with my family, I would have ushered us all out the door as quickly as I could have, and I probably would have gone up to him in a tactful way and said, ‘You’ve got to stop this,”. Probably. Huh? Tactful? Please-pretty-please? Honey, you were one crazy person away from not having a family at all.
“The illustration was designed to show believers how unbelief is an enemy to faith.” Martin Luther said that reason is the enemy of faith. Unbelief isn’t an enemy of faith, it merely means that faith has failed to make its case. In fact, this pretty much demonstrates that faith is the biggest enemy that faith has. My faith in Brahma is the enemy of faith in Jeebus.
‘ The teaching for “believers” was intended to encourage spiritual violence towards unbelief and the lack of faith, not towards people.“ “Oh look! There is unbelief standing there, hiding behind the door. Or maybe under the bed late at night!” Spiritual violence is violence, and that spiritual doesn’t exist, in which case violence is violence. It’s like telling me that you don’t hate me as a gay man, you just hate my sin, as if I and being gay were actually separable. You cannot eat my alleged sin unless you also hate me.
But let us give Hemantthe last word.” I don’t know if the bigger problem here is a problem with conservative Christianity or America’s gun culture.” as far as I can tell there is no difference.
Conservative Christianity and American gun culture might as well be the same thing. The Venn diagram of the two is so close to a circle that the difference is minuscule.
"I probably would have gone up to him in a tactful way."
FFS, the man was aiming a firearm at his congregation, and he had a second gunman as backup. The only way I'd 'go up' to that shithead is with a 𝘚𝘞𝘈𝘛 𝘵𝘦𝘢𝘮.
Sure, Jan. "Spiritual" violence often translates to real violence. Unbelievers and those who lack faith are often seen as being less than people. This sermon and this church are totally on board with violent actions against anyone and everything they hate.
Unfortunately, under the current Regime, it will be the people they hate on the FBI watch list, and not them.
Is that dude in camo a real soldier? If he were going into combat, he sure as shit wouldn't be dressed like that. His commanders would bring the wrath of God down on him.
Well, militarily speaking, you only wear headgear inside if you are carrying a weapon. Most often a handgun rather than a rifle because folks will see the rifle but not the handgun. Anytime you aren’t armed, headgear gets removed at the threshold.
Not that I expect either of these “Rambos” to know any of that. They’re just cosplaying military they see in the movies.
“Please understand, that is a principle that needs to be employed when you use your faith. You have to overwhelm your enemy with a violent action of faith. You have got to come in loud and run out the unbelief. You have to get it to submit to you.”
Wut?
What is a “violent action of faith”? Being loud and in large numbers is no way to counter unbelief. This dude seems to be endorsing the notion that might makes right. I’m guessing he would be the first to claim persecution if that were applied to him.
He's either planning to murder his congregation, or he's planning for his congregation to murder everyone else. Possibly the latter, followed by the former.
That fückwït fails basic firearms safety. My drill sergeant would have taken him out behind the Conex and pounded some training into him. I'd not have allowed him to check out a firearm from my arms room without significant remedial training.
All the serious talk has been addressed. What the fuck is he doing with the shoulder strap? He looks like he’s trying to put on a string bikini wrong. I mean, it is clear he doesn’t know how to use the damned thing. Why does he think he can go out and tell others how to be a good soldier?
Plus his military references are all Hollywood based.
When my wonderful late father-in-law handed me his old-but-cherished .22 rifle, as a gift, the first thing I did was check that it was unloaded, even knowing that he would NEVER intentionally hand me a loaded weapon. We are all humans, we are all fallible, there is that last chamber round, etc. The lesson not only applies to deadly weapons, but life in general. The rounds might be words, that somehow bypass our mental editor, and strike with nonlethal effect that can still destroy relationships, prompt unintended nightmares, damage fragile psyches. We can all walk more carefully through life, more aware of our fellow humans...even including the despicable ammosexual pastors and colleagues who wave exceedingly deadly weapons around in front of a congregation, with mere reassurances that their deadliness has been temporarily suspended.
If I'd been in that service, I would've quietly slipped out, apparently headed for the bathroom, and never returned to the church. In the relative safety of my car, I would've called 911, telling the dispatcher that a pastor was waving an AR-15 around, with only his assurance that it was unloaded, and let consequences happen to that grandstanding.
Ok. I read through a lot of the comments and I differ with the idea that jeebus wanted us to be much different than this idiot.
Jeebus may have been based upon real people. No one really knows. There were so many itinerant magicians during that time.
Someone wrote the babbel. Someone wrote the parts that sound nice.
So fucking what.
Long before I read the babbel, I thought people should be peaceful and take care of each other. When I read the babbel, it wasn't all that different from other texts from other people.
Xitians who like the nice parts, but not the violent parts are denying their god. Their god is a violent motherfucker. Along comes his dippy *son* and all is well?
No. Religion is a scam. A farce. A lie. It's organized stupidity.
In 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐽𝑒𝑠𝑢𝑠 𝐷𝑦𝑛𝑎𝑠𝑡𝑦: 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐻𝑖𝑑𝑑𝑒𝑛 𝐻𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝐽𝑒𝑠𝑢𝑠, 𝐻𝑖𝑠 𝑅𝑜𝑦𝑎𝑙 𝐹𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑦, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐵𝑖𝑟𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑦 James Tabor writes that four other guys were running around the mideast claiming to be the messiah.
Guns and God what can go wrong here. Well, a lot of things like shooters of a school or church with a mission from god. How about assassinations and attempted assassinations on orders from some god or prophet. How about war like "Onward Christian soldiers marching to war with the cross of Jesus going on before." Fighting wars because god is our side is one of the primary false "justifications" for war. Or, using a gun as "prop" to look like a tough guy. The guy is a dangerous looney disguised as a Christian.
First rule of guns. They are ALWAYS loaded (meaning treat them as such) and never aim them at what you don’t expect to shoot. This guy is an asshat. And danger.
"Asshat" isn't strong enough a term ... and I'm having a tough time thinking of an epithet that IS strong enough.
Reckless, violent sociopath?
Getting there, for sure.
In other words, “Republican”, or even “Christian”.
Would putain d'enculé d'sa race* work ?
*Fucking disgusting asshole.
Putain d'enculé lui convient parfaitement. Les Français ont toujours eu le don pour trouver le bon mot.
Salut toi, ça f'sait un bail 😁
Oh, yeah...
I always call these assholes “gunfuckers”.
Ammosexuals.
Interesting! Wonder if that might catch on!
Ammosexual works too.
Trumpite and christian nationalist.
Assume the gun wielder is loaded too.
The version I learned was "always treat a gun as if it's loaded, 𝘦𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 if you're sure it's not." Because the moment you're certain you're perfectly safe is 𝘦𝘹𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 when you start to act stupid. As we can plainly see in this display of testosterone-poisoned machismo, which is 𝘦𝘹𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 the kind of thing I'd expect to find in a story about a negligent discharge killing someone.
Ask Alec Baldwin.
Yes, this is what we as a nation get, when any old asshole fanatic can buy a murder machine, without having to take safety training.
This guy needs a psych evaluation, stat.
Talk about tone-deaf, never mind bringing a weapon supposedly to project the teachings of the "Prince of Peace." Thornton's behavior here is so beyond the pale that it beggars description (though Hemant does pretty well!). This doesn't even mention the old yet appropriate saw about the gun not being loaded until it goes off.
Even worse, where was the reaction from the congregation? Have they been so snookered by Thornton that they just go along with the gag? I was stunned when this first came to my attention and that reaction hasn't changed.
This topic was covered in a previous FA article. The first thing I mentioned is that "the gun is never loaded until it goes off."
Had that gun or the gun held by that guy in fatigues gone off, would there have been an arrest or would Thornton have tried to cover it up by turning his gun on his congregation to insure their silence or to insure that they say only what he wants them to say?
It's on camera, so the congregation being "encouraged" to lie for him wouldn't help him. But the Christian Fucking Privilege certainly would.
Bet he would’ve “joked” about doing it.
The hell of it is, from what I read of the article, HE thought it was funny or at least pithy, when what it WAS was utterly deranged.
Deranged is the new default state of mind for the right-wing these days.
And Trump and his cult followers think he is "a very stable genius"...
I wonder if he's a meth-head?
To be fair, not really, the dweeb is wearing camo cargo shorts, not fatigues. He is doing the formation bit wrong.
No, not Thornton but by the GQP and the NRA, which have been indoctrinating the population into worshipping guns enough to think this is normal behaviour.
P-ass-tor thinks going Crusades on everyone will win people over to Christianity. All he will demonstrate is that Christians are bloodthirsty maniacs.
Bloodthirsty and deranged. I mean, who brings a GUN to church, never mind using it as a part of a sermon, other than that one crazy sect that seems as devoted to their AR-15s are they supposedly are to their god.
That has me shaking my head, it was not just a gun, it was an automatic rifle, a machine gun, a weapon created for war!
What’s that line, what would Jesus do? I am not really on speaking terms with him these days, but I am very (!) confident, that he would not do that!
Something about beating it into a plowshare, I think.
Learn your terms, this was not an automatic weapon.
A Korean-American christian sect.
These freaks...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Iron_Ministries
Yep. First time I heard about them was in video by Tev (French only) about weird Asian sects and cults. It's not his usual focus*, I don't know why and how he researched it but it had perturbed him enough to make a video about it.
* Mostly his life as a French man in Japan, the cultural differences and his travels.
Well, their god is a bloodthirsty maniac, and since they make their god in their image....
As if history doesn't already show us that!
Well, what fun!
“ Please understand, that is a principle that needs to be employed when you use your faith. You have to overwhelm your enemy with a violent action of faith. You have got to come in loud and run out the unbelief. You have to get it to submit to you.”
It doesn’t sound to me like he’s merely high on God, but high on something that was causing a psychotic break of some sort. I hope the guns were OK. But it sounds like he’s babbling, not in tongues, but in gungues. But it also sounds like he truly believes that this unbelief is an act of defiance or rebellion against his magical buddy. He doesn’t understand we simply do not believe his claims in exactly the same way that he doesn’t believe in Koschei the Deathless, Who Made Things As They Are. Or in the unicorn in my garden.
“ Right. Praise the Lord. Can’t help myself sometimes.”
But the experts aren’t helping, either. “ “Frankly, if I was there with my family, I would have ushered us all out the door as quickly as I could have, and I probably would have gone up to him in a tactful way and said, ‘You’ve got to stop this,”. Probably. Huh? Tactful? Please-pretty-please? Honey, you were one crazy person away from not having a family at all.
“The illustration was designed to show believers how unbelief is an enemy to faith.” Martin Luther said that reason is the enemy of faith. Unbelief isn’t an enemy of faith, it merely means that faith has failed to make its case. In fact, this pretty much demonstrates that faith is the biggest enemy that faith has. My faith in Brahma is the enemy of faith in Jeebus.
‘ The teaching for “believers” was intended to encourage spiritual violence towards unbelief and the lack of faith, not towards people.“ “Oh look! There is unbelief standing there, hiding behind the door. Or maybe under the bed late at night!” Spiritual violence is violence, and that spiritual doesn’t exist, in which case violence is violence. It’s like telling me that you don’t hate me as a gay man, you just hate my sin, as if I and being gay were actually separable. You cannot eat my alleged sin unless you also hate me.
But let us give Hemantthe last word.” I don’t know if the bigger problem here is a problem with conservative Christianity or America’s gun culture.” as far as I can tell there is no difference.
This is what has become normalized.
Conservative Christianity and American gun culture might as well be the same thing. The Venn diagram of the two is so close to a circle that the difference is minuscule.
Republican Jeesus.
One point re the word ‘enemy’ - Jesus asked his followers to love their enemy, there’s nothing about ‘overwhelming them with (spiritual) violence.
That chap is off his rocker!
Is he off his rocker, or is he very much rocking on? Within the mindset of dominionist Christianity, he’s very consistent
Yes, you are right. With the mindset of normal, sensible people he’s totally doolally!
"I probably would have gone up to him in a tactful way."
FFS, the man was aiming a firearm at his congregation, and he had a second gunman as backup. The only way I'd 'go up' to that shithead is with a 𝘚𝘞𝘈𝘛 𝘵𝘦𝘢𝘮.
Are sin-eaters making a comeback? ;)
Flaming ammosexual.
Not flaming enough.
𝑇𝑜 𝑖𝑙𝑙𝑢𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑒 ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑝𝑜𝑖𝑛𝑡, ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑒𝑑 𝑎𝑛 𝐴𝑅-15 𝑠𝑒𝑚𝑖-𝑎𝑢𝑡𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑐 𝑟𝑖𝑓𝑙𝑒 𝑜𝑛 ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑠𝑡 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑐𝑒𝑒𝑑𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑎𝑖𝑚 𝑖𝑡 𝑑𝑖𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑡𝑙𝑦 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑓𝑎𝑐𝑒𝑠.
What the actual fuck is wrong with this asshole? This man should not be around any weapons.
𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑡𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑓𝑜𝑟 “𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑠” 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑖𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑎𝑔𝑒 𝑠𝑝𝑖𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑢𝑎𝑙 𝑣𝑖𝑜𝑙𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑡𝑜𝑤𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑠 𝑢𝑛𝑏𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑒𝑓 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑙𝑎𝑐𝑘 𝑜𝑓 𝑓𝑎𝑖𝑡ℎ, 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑡𝑜𝑤𝑎𝑟𝑑𝑠 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒.
Sure, Jan. "Spiritual" violence often translates to real violence. Unbelievers and those who lack faith are often seen as being less than people. This sermon and this church are totally on board with violent actions against anyone and everything they hate.
Unfortunately, under the current Regime, it will be the people they hate on the FBI watch list, and not them.
Is that dude in camo a real soldier? If he were going into combat, he sure as shit wouldn't be dressed like that. His commanders would bring the wrath of God down on him.
(And wearing a cap in church?)
That's called beach camo.
YHVH told his chosen people to wear hats in church. Why did the followers of Yeshuah decide that the opposite was correct?
Well, militarily speaking, you only wear headgear inside if you are carrying a weapon. Most often a handgun rather than a rifle because folks will see the rifle but not the handgun. Anytime you aren’t armed, headgear gets removed at the threshold.
Not that I expect either of these “Rambos” to know any of that. They’re just cosplaying military they see in the movies.
I didn’t know that, Thankyou.
I ran into Carlin's bit about hats in church/synagogue/mosque yesterday. Still as fun as the first time.
Biiiiig Mall Ninja vibes off of these two dipshits.
These dorks can't be bothered to comb their hair, let alone do any other adult things.
Let’s ignore the gun for a moment.
“Please understand, that is a principle that needs to be employed when you use your faith. You have to overwhelm your enemy with a violent action of faith. You have got to come in loud and run out the unbelief. You have to get it to submit to you.”
Wut?
What is a “violent action of faith”? Being loud and in large numbers is no way to counter unbelief. This dude seems to be endorsing the notion that might makes right. I’m guessing he would be the first to claim persecution if that were applied to him.
Absolutely.
So, he’s not only bad at handling guns, he’s also bad at preaching!
He's either planning to murder his congregation, or he's planning for his congregation to murder everyone else. Possibly the latter, followed by the former.
OT: Happy Indigenous Peoples Day. 🙂
https://youtu.be/Mdg3nOA5ps8?si=jkISHjy1VeFcLUNL
Thanks!
I’m having a heck of a time keeping up this morning. Was going to mention this myself.
The lyrics for us non native speakers :)
https://genius.com/Randy-newman-the-great-nations-of-europe-lyrics
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xNYTA6SV6tM&pp=ygULdGFueWEgdGFnYXE%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ovZxa7KYRu0
That fückwït fails basic firearms safety. My drill sergeant would have taken him out behind the Conex and pounded some training into him. I'd not have allowed him to check out a firearm from my arms room without significant remedial training.
Fuck that guy.
This guy is why we need to get rid of the 2nd Amendment and regulate guns like they do, for example, in Switzerland.
Regulate them like we have in Scotland?
The thought alone would make (some?) Americans’ head explode!
I also like Chris Rock's idea of "Bullet Control"' Charge $5,000 for a bullet. People would think twice about pulling the trigger.
Some wall-to-wall counseling is in order.
All the serious talk has been addressed. What the fuck is he doing with the shoulder strap? He looks like he’s trying to put on a string bikini wrong. I mean, it is clear he doesn’t know how to use the damned thing. Why does he think he can go out and tell others how to be a good soldier?
Plus his military references are all Hollywood based.
When my wonderful late father-in-law handed me his old-but-cherished .22 rifle, as a gift, the first thing I did was check that it was unloaded, even knowing that he would NEVER intentionally hand me a loaded weapon. We are all humans, we are all fallible, there is that last chamber round, etc. The lesson not only applies to deadly weapons, but life in general. The rounds might be words, that somehow bypass our mental editor, and strike with nonlethal effect that can still destroy relationships, prompt unintended nightmares, damage fragile psyches. We can all walk more carefully through life, more aware of our fellow humans...even including the despicable ammosexual pastors and colleagues who wave exceedingly deadly weapons around in front of a congregation, with mere reassurances that their deadliness has been temporarily suspended.
If I'd been in that service, I would've quietly slipped out, apparently headed for the bathroom, and never returned to the church. In the relative safety of my car, I would've called 911, telling the dispatcher that a pastor was waving an AR-15 around, with only his assurance that it was unloaded, and let consequences happen to that grandstanding.
See also: Brandishing, disorderly conduct, reckless endangerment.
I know preachers love a captive audience, but this is taking it a bit far!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aad95adac3e40e3dba2c3f495a84995feede20ec2304e038df1c67c87c3d2aa9.jpg
Gee, thanks for reminding me. 😡 My UV buttplug is still on back order. 😤
So's my replacement shocked face. I looked everywhere for my old one....and yes, I did check the jar by the door.
Well obviously, you're keeping it somewhere safe! It's so safe, even you can't find it. >.<
Fuckin' tariffs.
The face under that hat could also be RFK Jrs.
Ok. I read through a lot of the comments and I differ with the idea that jeebus wanted us to be much different than this idiot.
Jeebus may have been based upon real people. No one really knows. There were so many itinerant magicians during that time.
Someone wrote the babbel. Someone wrote the parts that sound nice.
So fucking what.
Long before I read the babbel, I thought people should be peaceful and take care of each other. When I read the babbel, it wasn't all that different from other texts from other people.
Xitians who like the nice parts, but not the violent parts are denying their god. Their god is a violent motherfucker. Along comes his dippy *son* and all is well?
No. Religion is a scam. A farce. A lie. It's organized stupidity.
In 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐽𝑒𝑠𝑢𝑠 𝐷𝑦𝑛𝑎𝑠𝑡𝑦: 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐻𝑖𝑑𝑑𝑒𝑛 𝐻𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝐽𝑒𝑠𝑢𝑠, 𝐻𝑖𝑠 𝑅𝑜𝑦𝑎𝑙 𝐹𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑦, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐵𝑖𝑟𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑦 James Tabor writes that four other guys were running around the mideast claiming to be the messiah.
They're just a bunch of naughty boys.
Brings new meaning to "praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. "
Guns and God what can go wrong here. Well, a lot of things like shooters of a school or church with a mission from god. How about assassinations and attempted assassinations on orders from some god or prophet. How about war like "Onward Christian soldiers marching to war with the cross of Jesus going on before." Fighting wars because god is our side is one of the primary false "justifications" for war. Or, using a gun as "prop" to look like a tough guy. The guy is a dangerous looney disguised as a Christian.
Or he’s a very dangerous Christian disguised as a loony.
Is there a difference?
No, no there is not.