Believing any religion could be imposed on people with a happy ending is about as dangerously stupid as thinking gets, yet that is where the so-called Christian nationalists are coming from. They tend to care only about their own religious freedom and are the first people to claim they're being persecuted. Persecution being anything they see as a threat to their expectation of privilege. They would not, of course, hesitate to persecute others if given the opportunity. Just about every religion sees itself as the solution to all the world's problems, and the Christian nationalists are worse than most.
Much worse, because they were unfortunately given so much unearned deference and respect in years past. Especially during the Ray-gun Regime, they were riding high with full access to the WH and makers of public policy. Those heady days when they seemed to actually gaining the temporal power they felt they deserved went to their empty, religion-addled heads like nobody's business and they will not give that up without a fight.
Absolutely. This has been building up since the Reagan days (all those trade-offs, sigh) and now this is their grand finale into um obscurity…forever? 🙏
Let’s just hope they don’t kill everyone else in the process.
It's that last part that scares the daylights out of me. I think some of them absolutely would kill everyone around them if they could. They seem to have that same Hitler-in-the-bunker mentality in the closing days of WWII.
Not to be defeatist, but Trump has many clones available to carry on Trumpism: e.g., the republican (not ever again the "GOP") party, billionaires, millions of Trump true believer drones to slave and kill for the billionaires...
Trumpism is the U.S. political equivalent to Field Bindweed:
"This fast-growing vine is one of the most aggressive, difficult perennial weeds to remove, and its little white morning-glory-like flowers produce lots of seeds. The main problem is with its white-rooted runners that spread deep and wide, making it very difficult to dig out." Doesn't this sound like Trump and his followers?
Hey now, you're insulting an American tradition! The puritans felt so repressed under the jackbooted heel of the CoE, that they left England and came to the Americas...so they could set up the jackbooted heel of puritanism.
Yes, the tolerant Dutch threw them out for their hatefulness ! But we teach they came here for religious freedom, a lie someone frequently mentions that when their name is mentioned.
“My ancestors were Puritans from England. They arrived here in 1648 in the hope of finding greater restrictions than were permissible under English law at that time.”
They are angry that they see others who do not subscribe to their narrow beliefs having that joy, the same joy they were promised by the preachers as exclusive to them. That only leaves them with malicious glee when they can actively harm those people.
Why can’t these religious zealots live and let live? Why must others believe as they do for them to be content in their religious fantasies? The “hive mind” mentality works best on drones. Is it greed or power they crave? Oh yes, yes it is.
Happy, peaceful, prosperous nones are an obvious counterexample to the claim that we all need Jesus in our lives for civilization to function. In their theology, it should be impossible for a non-Jesus way of life to succeed, be stable, or be prosperous. Yet we are. This is a threat to what they tell their kids is true.
Iran, the Taliban, and the DPRK (and in the past the USSR) all have the same problem, and it's one of the reasons why they hate/hated the west so much; it's really hard to convince your population that they *need* strict Islam or communism or leader worship, when the population can turn on the TV or listen to the radio and see people, even whole countries, doing just fine without it. They need the counterexample to not exist, or at least not be seen by the people they are trying to control.
"Happy, peaceful, prosperous nones are an obvious counterexample to the claim that we all need Jesus in our lives for civilization to function. In their theology, it should be impossible for a non-Jesus way of life to succeed, be stable, or be prosperous."
Nailed. It.
In church, we were told ad nauseam Jesus was the only source of happiness, and that the "so-called happiness" of the unbeliever was only a kind of "nervous giddiness" that was:
A) Self delusional
B) Fake
C) Only possible because they were deceived by Satan into thinking they're happy so they wouldn't get saved and go to heaven.
Exactly, according to Islam, because they are the most faithful true believers, they should be the most successful countries/societies on the planet. And yet they aren't, and it pisses their conservatives off to no end.
The argument often given on Quora by religious/christian fanatics is that their bible and "god", jesus, tells them to spread the "good word", aka go forth and harass, coerce, threaten and intimidate all atheists (those who merely lack a belief in any "gods") and other non-believers. I suspect that under Trump and his republican thugs, including fascist christian nationalists and other white supremacists, a protestant inquisition, pogroms and genocides could be on the cards.
Some of them also have a particularly American belief that America is to be the new promised land, and/or is turning into a new Sodom and Gomorrah and everyone (including them) will be punished if they can't "correct" it, and therefore they must convert the entire population, at least behaviorally if they can't manage True Believers™️, to sort things out.
Personally, I think it would work out better for everyone if they heeded the advice for Christians to withdraw from the world to create their pure community, and went elsewhere to form their personal Jonestown. Flavor-aid optional.
"Keys for Kids" and other Christian materials along with preachers always and shamelessly make false promises of true happiness given to anyone listening and reading their garbage who will agree to embrace their toxic ideology only to render them angry, vengeful, raging, resentful, and hateful. Highly manipulated into falling in line with their ideology of controlling them in everything from hairdos and clothing to their spoken and written language. i.e. "Don't do or say this or that or else you'll make Baby Jesus cry, grieve the Holy Spirit, go to Hell, etc."
Hey now, no need to insult mannequins. Long ago one of my duties at JC Penny was to help dress the mannequins. They looked fine and were far nicer than these christers.
It is ironical that this group even exists today, it’s only a fantastic hope that the USA is a beacon of freedom, specifically religious freedom. With our current administration it’s clear there’s no freedom of any kind, no freedom of speech, freedom of redress, nor freedom of religion. But the freedom of religion has been under attack since, at least, Reagan. Hartzler didn’t just appear with these ideas, she wasn’t elected by folks who didn’t know what she thought about these issues, this has been the heart of everything the far right has been doing. Perkins’ appointment wasn’t a fluke, Hartzler’s isn’t either. The Heritage Foundation is a driving force for this. I’m betting the whole farm that Johnson did this at the behest of the Heritage Foundation or in service of Project 2025.
The USA currently has no leg to stand on regarding espousing freedom throughout the world. The USA has been sawing away at the only leg they’ve ever had for decades and it just now broke away completely, it has been hanging on by a thread for decades.
My hope is that we can continue to resist, California is our first test, there will be more and they will increase in difficulty until we can do what is truly necessary to end this. What that will be is still unknown, but it won’t be pretty.
No, it won't be pretty. Trump seems to be determined to take the melting pot / patchwork quilt which is our nation and turn it into a white-bread, male-dominated, third-world banana republic. He wants to dismantle our intelligence, our innovation, and turn us all stupid, uninvolved, and indifferent.
"Make America Great Again?!?" More like "Make America Grovel," full stop.
Agreed, IMO the imperialistic MAGA cult will not end with the United States but the all 35 American countries in the Americas, claiming all one country called America.
Agree, but let's not forget Trump's fanatical female Trumpites, such as, Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Marjorie Taylor Greene, Paula White, Karoline Claire Leavitt and many others. I only make the point because it took many female voters to help put something like Trump in office - know all one's enemies.
Religious superstition was NEVER about freedoms. It has always been the antithesis of freedo9m. The very idea of watching and judging your every thought, word, dream and action is the dream of every dictator. Gods are just dictators.
I think I've seen an Assistant Sec Def or two which has been solid. You know, down low on the list where Trump and his cabinet don't bother getting involved.
Is it, really? In case you haven't notices, Ms. Hartzler, Christianity in the US is on the decline, along with virtually every other religion practiced in this country. Do you know what's on the rise? THE NONES, the non-religiously-affiliated citizens of this country. This is a hard fact and has been confirmed with multiple studies and polls. And I'm willing to bet that you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that fact.
The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom is there to support ALL RELIGIONS, and by extension, those of us who practice NO RELIGION. Can you bring yourself to support Jewish people who are subject to antisemitism? Are you willing to help resolve conflict between Sunni and Shia Muslims? How about someone who rejects Islam and wishes to live free of its oppression, somewhere in the Middle East?
And why do I get the distinct impression that the answers from you to all the above questions is a resounding NO?
She will likely support Jewish people subject to antisemitism, because Judeo-Christian "I'm not really a Nazi" nonsense. She will refuse to understand that protecting religious freedom means protecting religious minorities from the main religion in the country. Especially when it's hers.
I don't think she makes a difference between antisemitism and antizionism. I totally see her supporting Israel genocide of Palestinians, and not giving a fuck about real antisemitism incidents in your country.
Well, supporting the Israeli government unconditionally will hasten the Second Coming when all the people she hates get tortured forever. Why would she address 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘶𝘢𝘭 antisemitism?
That would be par for the conservative course. They need a rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem to kick off their second coming of Jesus. Human, civil, and religious rights for Jews in the US? Not on the radar.
The fact that THE NONES are on the rise is precisely why these psychopaths are so desperate to clamp down. It should be an embarrassment to the entire nation that we allowed a con-artist grifter to hold power (again) and let these bigots run amok all over the country and globe.
"who practice NO RELIGION" Unfortunately in the USA religions have certain privileges and exemptions that other non-profits don't have. Making it easy to control and manipulate their invasive causes. When they are threatened many lash out with persecution and discrimination claims.
Not until they religions are treated he same way as other non-profit organizations will there be change for the better.
Yeah, and that assumes Schroedinger’s Christianity is set to “on”. When you eliminate all the Not Real Christians (Catholics, Calvinists, progressive denoms, etc), why then Christians are a minority.
I’m guessing this person doesn’t regard RCC as True Christianity.
Since I grew up in farm territory, I was highly capable of driving a car at 13. These bigots need to remember: Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion.
As it comes not just to freedom of / from religion but to any concept that can be superimposed by someone on someone else, Hume's quote remains among the most important ones I know.
A coworker told me of someone they knew whose son would drive a semi to school at 14 so he could haul grain before and after classes. While a farm permit was a legit thing, he thought that was stretching it a little.
I would think that given her current position, her husband will be given a general’s rank and she would be a wife. Then they would receive their own Martha and Handmaiden to continue his line. She won’t like being denied the ability to read her Bible for herself and the freedom of movement denied all women.
But reality might not follow exactly the rules lined out in the book.
“PERKINS: And what we’ve seen happen is, there has been this effort to, as I mentioned a minute ago, to marginalize Christianity while promoting other religions, as if the government has to be the equalizer. And I want to ask you about that. As a congresswoman, as one who understands the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, is it the government’s role to try to put all religions on the same plane?”
“HARTZLER: No, it’s not their role at all. I mean, their role is to facilitate basic policy for our country and to not to try to lift up one religion over the other. They should be defending the basic rights that we have, that freedom of religion here, and certainly not facilitating or accommodating fringe religions. I mean, it’s crazy.”
First, it is clear she has no clue about the constitution so no one should be going to her for “expert” advice. Second, no one has marginalized Christianity. Providing a space for people to worship religions other than Christianity does not marginalize Christianity, there are still the same number of places for Christians to worship, and there have always been far more Christian spaces than any other. Allowing another space to exist doesn’t keep you from having yours. Third, government isn’t the equalizer but it needs to ensure equal rights to worship to all religions, even the fringe religions. It’s not about giving fringe and minority religions worshipers and churches and make them equally populated, but to ensure those that are adherents to those religions can access what they need in order to worship. It’s not about equalizing, it’s about not getting in the fucking way as you two are so hell bent on doing. Fourth, if we aren’t about facilitating and accommodating what you call fringe religions, then we aren’t facilitating or accommodating Christianity either. But it is exactly about accommodating all religious beliefs no matter how small the religion is. All service members should have access to their religious needs. All Of Them. It’s not crazy, it’s reality.
There is a novel by Mercedes Lackey that broach into this. An imperial army is stranded in a foreign country and not all soldiers share the Empire official cult (the deceased Emperors). The commander (agnostic or atheist) allowed the building of altars in the barracks and the organisation of worship services, as long as it doesn't interfere with one's duty.
"all service members should " Agreed, unfourtantly in todays United States military being a non believer is frowned upon. When I was in 45 years ago one did not dare not to proclaim to believe in superstitions and deities. I just played along to avoid controversy.
With two sons currently serving the USAF they tell me nothing has changed. Freely thinking for oneself is discouraged and considered unpatriotic.
Today the US military has high ranking officers on the payroll as Priests, Rabbis, Imams, etc., continually preaching their dogma without impunity. Many disagree with the other causing a rift between their followers. Not a good thing for a organization that banks on uniformity to accomplish a mission.
There is still no room in the foxhole for non-believers. Thanks
When I was in it wasn’t so bad, the chaplains were available but didn’t preach outside of specific times, sundays of course, but also during ceremonies. The chaplains I was exposed to were open minded, they facilitated certain morale boosting activities that were secular in nature.
I know the Air Force academy is notorious for pushing Christian supremacy and there are other instances of Christianity being forced. But I was able to move around in a non committed state regarding religion. I can guess that lately that has changed, for the worse. My service ended 21 years ago. I dealt with don’t ask don’t tell, which had its own pitfalls for folks.
Yes, the military is now under MAGA with, a clues less "Commander And Chief" and Pete Hegseth. IMO both psychopaths using religion to gain power and control. They know that over three quarters of the United States population believe in superstitions and deities making it easy to do so with all the "God" stuff they both repeatedly say when speaking to crowds.
A this point "whatever can happen will happen" - "Murphy's law.
Yes, sorry I stand corrected. Either way Religion in the US military is a cluster fuck . With the hypocrisy and contradictions that comes with it and could help with the military demise. Service members can worship on their own.
The US tax payers don't need to be paying for organized religion in any form of government. Better for service members to keep their beliefs to themselves. Not all United States citizens are a "we."
“Countries of Particular Concern” because of their continued opposition to true religious freedom. They also suggest countries that the State Department should watch out for because they’re heading in that direction."
A country is blatantly missing.
"Why not allow a 50-year-old man to marry a 12-year-old girl if they love each other and they're committed?"
Because some states in your country already allow adult men to legally abuse and rape little girls ? She is either a liar* who use their suffering to advance your bigotry or an imbecile.
* The one party that wants to stop child marriage is NOT the one she belongs to.
In the "United" Kingdom as of 27 February 2023* The minimum age for marriage is eighteen, i.e. age of majority, in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. In Scotland it remains at sixteen with parental consent, although I am unsure whether both parties need parental consent (equality) or only the party/parties under eighteen. NB that last part was a joke but why should it be?
*The Act was passed in 2022 but Scotland has its own parliamentary responsibility in these matters and perhaps Gretna Green needs the tourists.
As if that fear of their god prevented xtians from developing exquite totures in the Inquisition(s). As if it prevented the cannibalism visited upon Muslims by xtians during the 1st Crusade. As if it spared a single innocent woman's life at the time of the Medieval Witch Hunts. As if stopped the enslavement and genocide of indienous peoples in the 'New World.'
Most Christians rednecks don’t know the history of their religion, in fact I had to explain to a Christian who Martin Luther was. The redneck kept confusing Martin Luther with Martin Luther king jr. The redneck only knows the parts of history that fox channel or Hollywood movies cover, and we all know that either of those two are not interested in historical accuracy or facts.
The rednecks don’t know their own holy book, so I shouldn’t be surprised that the rednecks also don’t know the history of their religion. I keep being told by Christians that the bible is the most important book in the world, yet the bible is the least read book by Christians. If Christians can’t be bothered to read their own holy book, then why should I be interested in being a Christian.
I can be moral/ethical without any religion, I go by the humanistic principles (most rednecks would consider that being “woke”) rather than follow a religious dogma.
If you want a real hoot, look up "Sherri Shepherd Jesus predates everything." Not some nobody but a national television host didn't think history B.C. existed.
She's a JW though I think, so southern or redneck culture is not to blame in this case.
Sure you do. You're thinking of that publicity whore with a reality telly show on the BBC. I have a fully functional Chameleon Circuit. Did you forget that I started out as a TARDIS repair tech?
Not to mention that the Protestants killed Catholics under Elizabeth 1, and the times of troubles in Northern Ireland. I would also mention the support that Protestants gave to the Nazi regime (which the Holocaust was the result). I realize everyone here know all this, but it does deserve to be repeated.
Sad but unsurprising. When your entire world view is based on a belief you’re right and others’ wrong - well, here we go again. Bigots start wars. They get to set-up “the other” and attract followers who stand against “the others”. Bigots with followers are of course very useful to a range of unsavoury politicians - the bigots are quite literally useful idiots as are their sheep. Buckle up.
Making him a blatant liar and oathbreaker on top of everything else, since he was specifically asked during his nomination - by Republicans - if he was going to do that, and he said "no."
If he was a Dem appointee, those same GOPers would now be screaming bloody murder. But since the entire GOP lives in fear of Trump's displeasure, they won't say anything. Worse, if someone points out that Kennedy is now doing what he promised the GOP Congress he wouldn't do, they'll fall over themselves pretending they like it.
He’s just following precedent. All the Trump SCROTUS appointees said there was no way to reverse Roe, and yet they led the charge when it came up. What’s surprising is that the appointees are even trying to say the right thing during their confirmation hearings, they know they’ll get approved, it’s not like congress is anything but shell hiding sycophants. It’s not just the republicans either, there are too many democrats just going along with this.
I wanna tell her "You first, sweetheart. And I sincerely hope that there is a Jesus and that you will sweat while you try to explain yourself to him before he boots you to the eternal steambath."
I've been using AI for months now, working on a document for a proposed internet standard for privacy-preserving online age-verification, and I can tell you that bit about "may make mistakes" is *very* true. About a quarter of what it tells you is wrong or incomplete. You have to double check everything. Among other things it's programmed to be agreeable and often uses superlatives to open its responses to you. "Brilliant question" comes up a lot.
Believing any religion could be imposed on people with a happy ending is about as dangerously stupid as thinking gets, yet that is where the so-called Christian nationalists are coming from. They tend to care only about their own religious freedom and are the first people to claim they're being persecuted. Persecution being anything they see as a threat to their expectation of privilege. They would not, of course, hesitate to persecute others if given the opportunity. Just about every religion sees itself as the solution to all the world's problems, and the Christian nationalists are worse than most.
Much worse, because they were unfortunately given so much unearned deference and respect in years past. Especially during the Ray-gun Regime, they were riding high with full access to the WH and makers of public policy. Those heady days when they seemed to actually gaining the temporal power they felt they deserved went to their empty, religion-addled heads like nobody's business and they will not give that up without a fight.
Absolutely. This has been building up since the Reagan days (all those trade-offs, sigh) and now this is their grand finale into um obscurity…forever? 🙏
Let’s just hope they don’t kill everyone else in the process.
It's that last part that scares the daylights out of me. I think some of them absolutely would kill everyone around them if they could. They seem to have that same Hitler-in-the-bunker mentality in the closing days of WWII.
Miillions deAd in witch hunts inquisittions and crusades
I suspect a protestant inquisition this time - if Trump makes good on his threat to stay in power after his term ends.
He can't; his health won't keep him alive that long.
Not to be defeatist, but Trump has many clones available to carry on Trumpism: e.g., the republican (not ever again the "GOP") party, billionaires, millions of Trump true believer drones to slave and kill for the billionaires...
Trumpism is the U.S. political equivalent to Field Bindweed:
"This fast-growing vine is one of the most aggressive, difficult perennial weeds to remove, and its little white morning-glory-like flowers produce lots of seeds. The main problem is with its white-rooted runners that spread deep and wide, making it very difficult to dig out." Doesn't this sound like Trump and his followers?
Which is why they are now using underhanded and unconstitutional means to hold on.
Hey now, you're insulting an American tradition! The puritans felt so repressed under the jackbooted heel of the CoE, that they left England and came to the Americas...so they could set up the jackbooted heel of puritanism.
Yes, the tolerant Dutch threw them out for their hatefulness ! But we teach they came here for religious freedom, a lie someone frequently mentions that when their name is mentioned.
“My ancestors were Puritans from England. They arrived here in 1648 in the hope of finding greater restrictions than were permissible under English law at that time.”
— Garrison Keillor
History has proved this.
Why do so many of these Christian Nationalist stiffs look like constipated department store mannequins?
I look at people like her and wonder if there is any genuine JOY in her life ... and I think we already know the answer to that one.
H. L. Mencken described Christian fundamentalism as the desperate fear someone, somewhere, might be happy.
𝑃𝑢𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑠𝑚: 𝑇ℎ𝑒 ℎ𝑎𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑓𝑒𝑎𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑠𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑜𝑛𝑒, 𝑠𝑜𝑚𝑒𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒, 𝑚𝑎𝑦 𝑏𝑒 ℎ𝑎𝑝𝑝𝑦.
-- H. L. Mencken
Yup ... remember it well, and it's been a part of my quote collection for a while!
That's probably why some denominations prohibit dancing. Unless it involves dancing with a venomous serpent.
There is an old joke about Mormon's prohibiting pre-marital sex out of fear it could lead to dancing.
The Jewish version is no having sex while standing up.
Mencken was a curmudgeon, but he sure understood people.
Quite the anti-Semite, IIRC. But that was mighty common in his day.
Yes, he was, and sadly very common in his day.
The closest thing to joy for people like her is the dopamine rush they get from punching down on people they hate.
They are angry that they see others who do not subscribe to their narrow beliefs having that joy, the same joy they were promised by the preachers as exclusive to them. That only leaves them with malicious glee when they can actively harm those people.
Why can’t these religious zealots live and let live? Why must others believe as they do for them to be content in their religious fantasies? The “hive mind” mentality works best on drones. Is it greed or power they crave? Oh yes, yes it is.
Happy, peaceful, prosperous nones are an obvious counterexample to the claim that we all need Jesus in our lives for civilization to function. In their theology, it should be impossible for a non-Jesus way of life to succeed, be stable, or be prosperous. Yet we are. This is a threat to what they tell their kids is true.
Iran, the Taliban, and the DPRK (and in the past the USSR) all have the same problem, and it's one of the reasons why they hate/hated the west so much; it's really hard to convince your population that they *need* strict Islam or communism or leader worship, when the population can turn on the TV or listen to the radio and see people, even whole countries, doing just fine without it. They need the counterexample to not exist, or at least not be seen by the people they are trying to control.
"Happy, peaceful, prosperous nones are an obvious counterexample to the claim that we all need Jesus in our lives for civilization to function. In their theology, it should be impossible for a non-Jesus way of life to succeed, be stable, or be prosperous."
Nailed. It.
In church, we were told ad nauseam Jesus was the only source of happiness, and that the "so-called happiness" of the unbeliever was only a kind of "nervous giddiness" that was:
A) Self delusional
B) Fake
C) Only possible because they were deceived by Satan into thinking they're happy so they wouldn't get saved and go to heaven.
D) All of the above
Exactly, according to Islam, because they are the most faithful true believers, they should be the most successful countries/societies on the planet. And yet they aren't, and it pisses their conservatives off to no end.
The argument often given on Quora by religious/christian fanatics is that their bible and "god", jesus, tells them to spread the "good word", aka go forth and harass, coerce, threaten and intimidate all atheists (those who merely lack a belief in any "gods") and other non-believers. I suspect that under Trump and his republican thugs, including fascist christian nationalists and other white supremacists, a protestant inquisition, pogroms and genocides could be on the cards.
Some of them also have a particularly American belief that America is to be the new promised land, and/or is turning into a new Sodom and Gomorrah and everyone (including them) will be punished if they can't "correct" it, and therefore they must convert the entire population, at least behaviorally if they can't manage True Believers™️, to sort things out.
Personally, I think it would work out better for everyone if they heeded the advice for Christians to withdraw from the world to create their pure community, and went elsewhere to form their personal Jonestown. Flavor-aid optional.
Not a trick she wants to try on me (or any of us, really). In my case, I punch BACK.
I don't punch people, it's not civilised. Luckily, I inherited DM's cane.
“I don’t punch people but they have a way of falling into my fist.”
"Keys for Kids" and other Christian materials along with preachers always and shamelessly make false promises of true happiness given to anyone listening and reading their garbage who will agree to embrace their toxic ideology only to render them angry, vengeful, raging, resentful, and hateful. Highly manipulated into falling in line with their ideology of controlling them in everything from hairdos and clothing to their spoken and written language. i.e. "Don't do or say this or that or else you'll make Baby Jesus cry, grieve the Holy Spirit, go to Hell, etc."
I always take comfort in this fact.
She does remind me quite a bit of Lori Alexander.
Lori Alexander ... UGH! 😝
That's their side hustle?
The human skin suit is uncomfortable.
Those compression fields are a bitch too.
Hey now, no need to insult mannequins. Long ago one of my duties at JC Penny was to help dress the mannequins. They looked fine and were far nicer than these christers.
It’s the stick up their ass.
It is ironical that this group even exists today, it’s only a fantastic hope that the USA is a beacon of freedom, specifically religious freedom. With our current administration it’s clear there’s no freedom of any kind, no freedom of speech, freedom of redress, nor freedom of religion. But the freedom of religion has been under attack since, at least, Reagan. Hartzler didn’t just appear with these ideas, she wasn’t elected by folks who didn’t know what she thought about these issues, this has been the heart of everything the far right has been doing. Perkins’ appointment wasn’t a fluke, Hartzler’s isn’t either. The Heritage Foundation is a driving force for this. I’m betting the whole farm that Johnson did this at the behest of the Heritage Foundation or in service of Project 2025.
The USA currently has no leg to stand on regarding espousing freedom throughout the world. The USA has been sawing away at the only leg they’ve ever had for decades and it just now broke away completely, it has been hanging on by a thread for decades.
My hope is that we can continue to resist, California is our first test, there will be more and they will increase in difficulty until we can do what is truly necessary to end this. What that will be is still unknown, but it won’t be pretty.
No, it won't be pretty. Trump seems to be determined to take the melting pot / patchwork quilt which is our nation and turn it into a white-bread, male-dominated, third-world banana republic. He wants to dismantle our intelligence, our innovation, and turn us all stupid, uninvolved, and indifferent.
"Make America Great Again?!?" More like "Make America Grovel," full stop.
Agreed, IMO the imperialistic MAGA cult will not end with the United States but the all 35 American countries in the Americas, claiming all one country called America.
Starting with the Gulf of America.
God Bless America and MAGA?
Straight White Anglo Male Protestants only allowed. ALL others to be executed by orders of gods whose violence knows no limits.
Agree, but let's not forget Trump's fanatical female Trumpites, such as, Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Marjorie Taylor Greene, Paula White, Karoline Claire Leavitt and many others. I only make the point because it took many female voters to help put something like Trump in office - know all one's enemies.
Religious superstition was NEVER about freedoms. It has always been the antithesis of freedo9m. The very idea of watching and judging your every thought, word, dream and action is the dream of every dictator. Gods are just dictators.
California: where there is no legal minimum age for marriage. NB as a non-USAn I do not know whether there are other relevant restrictions.
https://www.unchainedatlast.org/child-marriage-in-the-u-s/
IIRC, there *is* a maximum age below which requires a judge to sign off which hasn't happened in decades.
Thanks: that sounds reasonable.
I think I'm seeing a pattern. Every Trump administration appointee is unqualified. It's as if Trump himself is unqualified.
I believe you have something there...! 😁
Their purpose is to make him look smart, but they're so incompetent they can't even pull THAT off.
That makes…SO MUCH SENSE.
I think I've seen an Assistant Sec Def or two which has been solid. You know, down low on the list where Trump and his cabinet don't bother getting involved.
I just saw that Alina Habba is a US district attorney (or some such).
𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑖𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑚𝑎𝑖𝑛 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑖𝑛 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑦...
Is it, really? In case you haven't notices, Ms. Hartzler, Christianity in the US is on the decline, along with virtually every other religion practiced in this country. Do you know what's on the rise? THE NONES, the non-religiously-affiliated citizens of this country. This is a hard fact and has been confirmed with multiple studies and polls. And I'm willing to bet that you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that fact.
The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom is there to support ALL RELIGIONS, and by extension, those of us who practice NO RELIGION. Can you bring yourself to support Jewish people who are subject to antisemitism? Are you willing to help resolve conflict between Sunni and Shia Muslims? How about someone who rejects Islam and wishes to live free of its oppression, somewhere in the Middle East?
And why do I get the distinct impression that the answers from you to all the above questions is a resounding NO?
She will likely support Jewish people subject to antisemitism, because Judeo-Christian "I'm not really a Nazi" nonsense. She will refuse to understand that protecting religious freedom means protecting religious minorities from the main religion in the country. Especially when it's hers.
I don't think she makes a difference between antisemitism and antizionism. I totally see her supporting Israel genocide of Palestinians, and not giving a fuck about real antisemitism incidents in your country.
Well, supporting the Israeli government unconditionally will hasten the Second Coming when all the people she hates get tortured forever. Why would she address 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘶𝘢𝘭 antisemitism?
That would be par for the conservative course. They need a rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem to kick off their second coming of Jesus. Human, civil, and religious rights for Jews in the US? Not on the radar.
The fact that THE NONES are on the rise is precisely why these psychopaths are so desperate to clamp down. It should be an embarrassment to the entire nation that we allowed a con-artist grifter to hold power (again) and let these bigots run amok all over the country and globe.
It’s an embarrassment alright. It has exposed the US as a breeding ground for stoopid.
Bunch of scared little children in grown-up suits. PA-THE-TIC.
But those children are hell-bent on hurting as many people as possible and have the power to do so.
"who practice NO RELIGION" Unfortunately in the USA religions have certain privileges and exemptions that other non-profits don't have. Making it easy to control and manipulate their invasive causes. When they are threatened many lash out with persecution and discrimination claims.
Not until they religions are treated he same way as other non-profit organizations will there be change for the better.
"Tax the churches!" Frank Zappa
In God We Trust?
𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑖𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑚𝑎𝑖𝑛 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑖𝑛 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑦...
Yeah, and that assumes Schroedinger’s Christianity is set to “on”. When you eliminate all the Not Real Christians (Catholics, Calvinists, progressive denoms, etc), why then Christians are a minority.
I’m guessing this person doesn’t regard RCC as True Christianity.
This is classic: the fox guarding the hen house! Are you hens feeling safe yet?
https://thenounproject.com/icon/dead-chicken-leg-1037293/
Since I grew up in farm territory, I was highly capable of driving a car at 13. These bigots need to remember: Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion.
Can't have freedom of religion WITHOUT freedom from religion. They're inseparable.
𝑇ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑛𝑜 𝑠𝑢𝑐ℎ 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎𝑠 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑑𝑜𝑚 𝑜𝑓 𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑖𝑐𝑒 𝑢𝑛𝑙𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑖𝑠 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒𝑑𝑜𝑚 𝑡𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑓𝑢𝑠𝑒.
-- David Hume
As it comes not just to freedom of / from religion but to any concept that can be superimposed by someone on someone else, Hume's quote remains among the most important ones I know.
"Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion."
An important difference, but to them it's an inconvenient truth they purposely ignore.
There are now MANY inconvenient truths being ignored. Willful ignorance reigns supreme.
Yeah…I know.
(Depression. Heavy Sigh)
A coworker told me of someone they knew whose son would drive a semi to school at 14 so he could haul grain before and after classes. While a farm permit was a legit thing, he thought that was stretching it a little.
Me too — on both driving as a 13 year old and freedom.
Fun fact about me: I grew up 6 miles from the nearest piece of paved road.
A mere woman speaking and having authority over men? What is this Godly nation coming to?
No! She must be silent! The Bible says so!
That's a cherry she's trying to avoid picking, bless her little heart.
She'd better hope there isn't a full-on takeover of the US by NatCs. She'd find herself playing a new role: handmaid.
At her age? Unlikely. Domanionism (heh) is all about an elite caste of old men controlling sexual access to young women.
Young women who will be denied the right to say no.
I really, really hope this won't happen.
I hope it doesn’t either, but they have expended and ungodly amount of time and effort to head in that direction.
Looks like she's past child-bearing years, so the best she can hope for is Wife. If she's not married, then maybe a Martha.
If she's declared an Unwoman, she can be sent to the Colonies.
I would think that given her current position, her husband will be given a general’s rank and she would be a wife. Then they would receive their own Martha and Handmaiden to continue his line. She won’t like being denied the ability to read her Bible for herself and the freedom of movement denied all women.
But reality might not follow exactly the rules lined out in the book.
Wow, TWO constipated department store mannequins.* Talk about a marriage made in heaven.
*Because who else would tolerate her, much less live with her.
And the angels will be offended by her haircut
“PERKINS: And what we’ve seen happen is, there has been this effort to, as I mentioned a minute ago, to marginalize Christianity while promoting other religions, as if the government has to be the equalizer. And I want to ask you about that. As a congresswoman, as one who understands the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, is it the government’s role to try to put all religions on the same plane?”
“HARTZLER: No, it’s not their role at all. I mean, their role is to facilitate basic policy for our country and to not to try to lift up one religion over the other. They should be defending the basic rights that we have, that freedom of religion here, and certainly not facilitating or accommodating fringe religions. I mean, it’s crazy.”
First, it is clear she has no clue about the constitution so no one should be going to her for “expert” advice. Second, no one has marginalized Christianity. Providing a space for people to worship religions other than Christianity does not marginalize Christianity, there are still the same number of places for Christians to worship, and there have always been far more Christian spaces than any other. Allowing another space to exist doesn’t keep you from having yours. Third, government isn’t the equalizer but it needs to ensure equal rights to worship to all religions, even the fringe religions. It’s not about giving fringe and minority religions worshipers and churches and make them equally populated, but to ensure those that are adherents to those religions can access what they need in order to worship. It’s not about equalizing, it’s about not getting in the fucking way as you two are so hell bent on doing. Fourth, if we aren’t about facilitating and accommodating what you call fringe religions, then we aren’t facilitating or accommodating Christianity either. But it is exactly about accommodating all religious beliefs no matter how small the religion is. All service members should have access to their religious needs. All Of Them. It’s not crazy, it’s reality.
There is a novel by Mercedes Lackey that broach into this. An imperial army is stranded in a foreign country and not all soldiers share the Empire official cult (the deceased Emperors). The commander (agnostic or atheist) allowed the building of altars in the barracks and the organisation of worship services, as long as it doesn't interfere with one's duty.
"all service members should " Agreed, unfourtantly in todays United States military being a non believer is frowned upon. When I was in 45 years ago one did not dare not to proclaim to believe in superstitions and deities. I just played along to avoid controversy.
With two sons currently serving the USAF they tell me nothing has changed. Freely thinking for oneself is discouraged and considered unpatriotic.
Today the US military has high ranking officers on the payroll as Priests, Rabbis, Imams, etc., continually preaching their dogma without impunity. Many disagree with the other causing a rift between their followers. Not a good thing for a organization that banks on uniformity to accomplish a mission.
There is still no room in the foxhole for non-believers. Thanks
In God We Trust?
When I was in it wasn’t so bad, the chaplains were available but didn’t preach outside of specific times, sundays of course, but also during ceremonies. The chaplains I was exposed to were open minded, they facilitated certain morale boosting activities that were secular in nature.
I know the Air Force academy is notorious for pushing Christian supremacy and there are other instances of Christianity being forced. But I was able to move around in a non committed state regarding religion. I can guess that lately that has changed, for the worse. My service ended 21 years ago. I dealt with don’t ask don’t tell, which had its own pitfalls for folks.
Yes, the military is now under MAGA with, a clues less "Commander And Chief" and Pete Hegseth. IMO both psychopaths using religion to gain power and control. They know that over three quarters of the United States population believe in superstitions and deities making it easy to do so with all the "God" stuff they both repeatedly say when speaking to crowds.
A this point "whatever can happen will happen" - "Murphy's law.
In God We Trust?
"without impunity"? Do you mean "with impunity"? If not then I have missed something.
Yes, sorry I stand corrected. Either way Religion in the US military is a cluster fuck . With the hypocrisy and contradictions that comes with it and could help with the military demise. Service members can worship on their own.
The US tax payers don't need to be paying for organized religion in any form of government. Better for service members to keep their beliefs to themselves. Not all United States citizens are a "we."
Thanks
" why not allow one man and two women or three women to marry?" Why not indeed? Or one woman and two or three men for that matter.
If they are all consenting and agree to the terms of the arrangement, where's the freaking problem?
It happened in one episode of Star Trek.
My symphathy to the divorce court judges.
“Countries of Particular Concern” because of their continued opposition to true religious freedom. They also suggest countries that the State Department should watch out for because they’re heading in that direction."
A country is blatantly missing.
"Why not allow a 50-year-old man to marry a 12-year-old girl if they love each other and they're committed?"
Because some states in your country already allow adult men to legally abuse and rape little girls ? She is either a liar* who use their suffering to advance your bigotry or an imbecile.
* The one party that wants to stop child marriage is NOT the one she belongs to.
"She is either a liar* who use their suffering to advance your bigotry or an imbecile."
Both?
I didn't want to steal your thunder 😁
In the "United" Kingdom as of 27 February 2023* The minimum age for marriage is eighteen, i.e. age of majority, in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. In Scotland it remains at sixteen with parental consent, although I am unsure whether both parties need parental consent (equality) or only the party/parties under eighteen. NB that last part was a joke but why should it be?
*The Act was passed in 2022 but Scotland has its own parliamentary responsibility in these matters and perhaps Gretna Green needs the tourists.
Because that stops pastors and priests from behaving very badly....
https://bsky.app/profile/rightwingwatch.bsky.social/post/3lre3r3twjk2x
As if that fear of their god prevented xtians from developing exquite totures in the Inquisition(s). As if it prevented the cannibalism visited upon Muslims by xtians during the 1st Crusade. As if it spared a single innocent woman's life at the time of the Medieval Witch Hunts. As if stopped the enslavement and genocide of indienous peoples in the 'New World.'
Shall I go on?
Most Christians rednecks don’t know the history of their religion, in fact I had to explain to a Christian who Martin Luther was. The redneck kept confusing Martin Luther with Martin Luther king jr. The redneck only knows the parts of history that fox channel or Hollywood movies cover, and we all know that either of those two are not interested in historical accuracy or facts.
The rednecks don’t know their own holy book, so I shouldn’t be surprised that the rednecks also don’t know the history of their religion. I keep being told by Christians that the bible is the most important book in the world, yet the bible is the least read book by Christians. If Christians can’t be bothered to read their own holy book, then why should I be interested in being a Christian.
I can be moral/ethical without any religion, I go by the humanistic principles (most rednecks would consider that being “woke”) rather than follow a religious dogma.
If you want a real hoot, look up "Sherri Shepherd Jesus predates everything." Not some nobody but a national television host didn't think history B.C. existed.
She's a JW though I think, so southern or redneck culture is not to blame in this case.
Just because someone is on television doesn't mean that person isn't a dumbass.
That was those evil Satanic Catholics. (And yes, I actually have heard that as a defense)
Did they conveniently forget that they partipated in witch hunts during the Reformation??
You weren't there.
Are you sure? Unlike Zorgin, I have a TARDIS with a properly-functioning Chameleon Circuit. ;)
Sure you do. You're thinking of that publicity whore with a reality telly show on the BBC. I have a fully functional Chameleon Circuit. Did you forget that I started out as a TARDIS repair tech?
If it is convenient to some argument at the moment, yes.
Not to mention that the Protestants killed Catholics under Elizabeth 1, and the times of troubles in Northern Ireland. I would also mention the support that Protestants gave to the Nazi regime (which the Holocaust was the result). I realize everyone here know all this, but it does deserve to be repeated.
Fuck that asshole.
Now roll the HUNDREDS of cases of pastors/ministers/priests/clergy who molest kids.
https://www.bishop-accountability.org/category/news-archive/abusetracker/
What is the biggest inmates demographic already ?
Chirstian?
Another fart ? 🤔
That trick never works.
Sad but unsurprising. When your entire world view is based on a belief you’re right and others’ wrong - well, here we go again. Bigots start wars. They get to set-up “the other” and attract followers who stand against “the others”. Bigots with followers are of course very useful to a range of unsavoury politicians - the bigots are quite literally useful idiots as are their sheep. Buckle up.
Armor up.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/279bc1dbf18034a419aa67f1085a5cea45f9344c79ee34f56d7421caa461a56d.jpg
Whattaya mean "please?"
Dammit Brian Wilson's dead. Good vibrations was a firm favourite of mine.
I had NO PART in it! I am innocent!
Say every innocent since the first accusation was thrown.
Life's a beach, then you die.
Damn. Those guys made such amazing music ... and NO ONE makes music like that these days, not that I know of.
That now makes all 3 Wilson brothers.
"My favorite vegetble" from Smioley Smiloe is running throughmy head.
OT: They're going to kill us all:
https://science.slashdot.org/story/25/06/11/015216/fda-to-use-ai-in-drug-approvals-to-radically-increase-efficiency
Yesterday, there was a story on Brainworm Bob removing every non-partisan CDC vaccine panel expert and replacing them with his own picks.
What could possibly go wrong because of that?
Making him a blatant liar and oathbreaker on top of everything else, since he was specifically asked during his nomination - by Republicans - if he was going to do that, and he said "no."
If he was a Dem appointee, those same GOPers would now be screaming bloody murder. But since the entire GOP lives in fear of Trump's displeasure, they won't say anything. Worse, if someone points out that Kennedy is now doing what he promised the GOP Congress he wouldn't do, they'll fall over themselves pretending they like it.
He’s just following precedent. All the Trump SCROTUS appointees said there was no way to reverse Roe, and yet they led the charge when it came up. What’s surprising is that the appointees are even trying to say the right thing during their confirmation hearings, they know they’ll get approved, it’s not like congress is anything but shell hiding sycophants. It’s not just the republicans either, there are too many democrats just going along with this.
Too bad that brainworm didn't finish the job.
What COULDN'T go wrong???
To add...
All of RFK Jr's picks are his allies and COVID vaccine critics.
Ce site pique les yeux...
*evil cunt Joni Ernst voice*
"We're all going to die."
I wanna tell her "You first, sweetheart. And I sincerely hope that there is a Jesus and that you will sweat while you try to explain yourself to him before he boots you to the eternal steambath."
"B-b-b-but Jesus, I persecuted all those poor and sick people for you!"
What could possibly go wrong.
I've been using AI for months now, working on a document for a proposed internet standard for privacy-preserving online age-verification, and I can tell you that bit about "may make mistakes" is *very* true. About a quarter of what it tells you is wrong or incomplete. You have to double check everything. Among other things it's programmed to be agreeable and often uses superlatives to open its responses to you. "Brilliant question" comes up a lot.