I was incensed when the priest at my nephew’s christening exhorted the congregation to vote for Bush the Lesser. I did write a letter to the IRS, but naturally, nothing came of it. I didn’t want to make a scene at the event, but just before I left, I did pull the priest aside and told him how I disappointed I was with his words, and how it was patently disallowed by law. He looked at me for a few seconds and said: “Your brother tells me you’re an atheist. I’m disappointed with your presence at this solemn ceremony.” He then turned and walked away. Sad, weak ‘man of god’.
I would have shot back with: "And I'm disappointed in your lack of respect for the law."
It's a fact: these people have felt little or no blowback for their actions, and it is past time that they caught some serious flack for their scofflaw attitude.
As I said, I didn’t want to make a scene. He’s my only nephew, and my parent’s only grandson, so I kept it on the downlow. Why my brother thought the priest should know I was atheist, I have no idea. I did ream him out for it later, and he was contrite.
I happen to be really good at telling off priests and reporting them when they don't meet my standards. If I had been there? I would have made him apologize to you, then gone to his Archdiocese and reported him.
When Church actually wants to be loving and good and kind? Then so will I. I learned how to hate by going to church and how to finger point and how to judge others-- all the usual lessons one learns in Sunday school and Mass
Men of God are often WEAK. Never forget, they’re MEN. I found this out more than a few decades ago when, as an altar boy and family friend of our catholic parish priest who we all knew ogled, over-hugged and creepily sat too close to women and girls. He had two separate, older women housekeepers who suddenly left in the middle of the night. Never to be heard from, even by their best friends in the church except to say they were alright and not coming back. Everyone knew he likely made a move on them and bought their silence. I personally overheard another younger priest tell a man what someone else said in confession. Along those lines, the creepy parish priest threatened to “let out” some secret(s) my dad said in confession about our family if he exposed high level police corruption he uncovered that would ruin a few careers of friends, fellow board members & golf buddies of the priest. My father resigned his position and did nothing to stop the corruption. He was never the same after this, threats against our family and my mom being followed/surveilled shook him to his core. It also took a toll on my mother’s health and faith.
Men are human and many are very flawed.
Churches should have the separation laws enforced AND pay taxes! Church schools and other side businesses..Taxed! Church related expenses, priest pay, vehicles, food etc, ALL TAXED like the rest of us! They live pretty nice off grifting..I mean..Off the tithings of their gullible faithful flocks. Yep, like sheep!
Wow those poor women at your church. My pastor had a thing for very young boys under 3. He let them participate in the Mass because they were oh so cute. And a thing for priests. And he was an enabler. Which is almost just as bad. Priests can't hold a second job. I think they should. And get married. And oh yes please tax churches. That should do them all in! Even when the parishioners are wealthy they don't always give money.
It was astronomically condescending and rude. As if he thought the man did not even have a right to be there for his own nephew's christening because his lack of belief made him unworthy.
Few things ever demonstrated the disconnect between religion and morality quite like the evangelical preachers pledging their unconditional love for the most grotesquely immoral President in American history. Christians railed against the coming of the anti-Christ for centuries then when he showed up, they voted for him. I think they are delusional enough to believe Trump would be willing to share power with them. Donald Trump does not share his toys or play well with others. No group would be more ill-equipped to exercise power than the clergy.
So according to the NAE, churches walk the walk but we see they don’t actually talk the talk. Or rather they talk too much out of both sides of their mouths as evidenced by their own congregants. I suspect the IRS didn’t deal with this on the level they should have because of low staffing and not wanting to get into an extended shouting match with “persecuted” religious kooks.
Agree. However, a genuine hypocrite is oblivious that their behavior is at odds with how they say they’d behave. They don’t realize they do not practice what they preach. Though I think evangelical leaders are expected by their congregation to hold forth on political issues and candidates. And cave they do.
Hemant, Hemant, Hemant. You got it wrong. You forgot this poll is about literalists (people whose words must be interpreted literally). So, when 98% said pastors shouldn't endorse a candidate from the pulpit, it's literally what they mean ! Now, for more accurate results, they should have been asked if pastors were allowed to endorse candidates while on the stage, or between the pews, or in the entryway, or on the parking lot...
I can't help but notice that a great number of the churches that pull these stunts have considerable stages, which may or may not have a lectern / pulpit / whatever as a focal point. The preachers who expound from such stages are well known to wander from Stage Left to Stage Right as they address their s̸h̸e̸e̸p̸ faithful.
Political endorsement from the pulpit thus become a moot technicality. Besides which, those fucks are going to do what they want until someone forcibly STOPS THEM.
OT: I think I need a nap. I thought my computer mouse had crapped out. I was wiggling it all over but couldn't find the cursor on the screen. I was about to change batteries when I realized I was looking at the TV screen instead of the computer screen. Defiantly nap time.
When I attended a megachurch, they would, of course, never risk their tax exemption by endorsing a candidate. Heavens no. Too much money at stake.
They would however, preach culture war issues from the pulpit, talk about how the Federal courts were awful, and put out a voter's guide highlighting the "issues" and frame candidate responses in ways like "Does the candidate support protecting innocent life?" "Does the candidate support your right to defend your family?"
"Plenty of conservative pastors, however, still argue that the rules are too onerous and they've deliberately tried to goad the IRS into revoking their tax-exempt status just so they can file a lawsuit over it."
konservative khristian konmen insist on violating Romans 13:1-7, which tells them to OBEY all earthly laws and authorities and WHY. It also tells them to pay their taxes and anything else they owe. This from the book they insist on shoving down the throats of others.
Why change the laws when they can ignore them without consequence? They've been doing that for all to see and for longer than I care to contemplate, and until they are actively and aggressively confronted with their wrongdoing, the bullshit will continue.
Hello! Separation of Church and State? Anybody? Anybody? Nobody has heard of separation of Church and State? Okay then when the government steps in to save churches from going under, then they can tell parishioners whom to vote for all they want but not until then. Still in favor of closing churches and making them affordable housing.
Separation of Church and State is in the process of the Death of 1000 Cuts, in part because it seems as though no one has the guts to confront churches that have blatantly gone political, and say, "Enough is enough. Either knock off the political preaching or kiss your 501(c)(3) status goodbye!
If our government won't play hardball with these guys, who will?
Walz served honorably for 24 years (as opposed to Vance's 4 years), and yet Vance called his opponent's service into question (what is it about Republicans criticizing Democrats military service? John Kerry, anyone)?
He criticized Walz, yet he's the running mate to a man who not only got 5 deferments to get out of serving, he also called those who DID serve (and sacrifice) "suckers and losers."
Walz fully admits he never saw combat. What Vance conveniently fails to mention is that, as a Marine, HE never saw combat either. Vance was a correspondent in Iraq...for 6 months. That's it.
". . . Vance joined the US Marine Corps, where he served from 2003 to 2007 as a combat correspondent in a non-combative role, including a six-month deployment in the public affairs department in Iraq."
Can't say that I'm surprised. Ever since I became aware of Tim Walz, he has impressed me as a stand-up guy who clearly cares about others and is clearly about SERVICE. The above-cited article just reinforces that ... IN SPADES!
No clue? Seriously? This seems obvious to me. The IRS is under threat of severe defunding if they go after GOP representative's loudest constituents. From a pragmatic perspective, the 'payoff' in terms of value to government is not worth the 'cost' of losing the resources needed to go after bigger tax cheats.
Hemant gives good coverage of why the survey isn't representative of what goes on or real evangelical congregant + pastor beliefs about using the pulpit for political messages. Seems like the survey was a bit more of a PR stunt than anything else.
But as PR I wonder if it'll backfire. Not only will skeptics look and laugh at those numbers, but I imagine there's a whole bunch of Dominionists who will now take public issue with the NAE for implying a 'hands off' policy is correct and normal, when that's not a message they want the NAE to send.
Hey, if this creates more infighting within the evangelical community, I'm all for it. Just grab the beer and the popcorn and watch the fur fly. It won't be as much fun as watching Deadpool & Wolverine, but it'll be an amusing distraction at least.
He did, while getting a good couple shots of his own in. He also did some damned fine acting in the midst of what otherwise could have been a poor farce, except that neither Jackman nor Reynolds would let it become such.
My aunt hated it, but then she had no interest in seeing any Deadpool movie. (I didn't know that when I suggested we go see it while I was in town for my IELTS test last weekend) Her daughter loved it as much as I did.
"Your actions are speaking so loud, I can't hear what you're saying!"
That's how I feel about this survey and announcement. Supposedly 98% of evangelical leaders agree that promoting specific candidates from the pulpit is an improper practice, yet how many of that 98% ARE DOING JUST THAT??? This goes beyond ludicrous and into a whole new territory.
And I think a considerable portion of the blame here does indeed go to the IRS. I cannot remember the last time that the Johnson Amendment was enforced against ANY church, and I suspect it would take a considerable Google search to find such an incidence. It is far past time that SOMEONE (say from the Oval Office, maybe?!?) went to Danny Werfel, the current Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service, and read him the Riot Act.
So that HE can read it to a few megachurches I could name ... because this has gone on long enough.
I was incensed when the priest at my nephew’s christening exhorted the congregation to vote for Bush the Lesser. I did write a letter to the IRS, but naturally, nothing came of it. I didn’t want to make a scene at the event, but just before I left, I did pull the priest aside and told him how I disappointed I was with his words, and how it was patently disallowed by law. He looked at me for a few seconds and said: “Your brother tells me you’re an atheist. I’m disappointed with your presence at this solemn ceremony.” He then turned and walked away. Sad, weak ‘man of god’.
I would have shot back with: "And I'm disappointed in your lack of respect for the law."
It's a fact: these people have felt little or no blowback for their actions, and it is past time that they caught some serious flack for their scofflaw attitude.
As I said, I didn’t want to make a scene. He’s my only nephew, and my parent’s only grandson, so I kept it on the downlow. Why my brother thought the priest should know I was atheist, I have no idea. I did ream him out for it later, and he was contrite.
Maybe in case your atheist cooties would ruin the ritual.
That’s it. Atheists eye roll, snort, and sneeze ‘bullshit’ throughout the service.
It's because their "omnipotent god" becomes powerless in the presence of a non-zero number of unbelievers.
I think telling him "shut up, kiddie fucker" would have been an appropriate response.
Yup. Very appropriate. Definetly! Because if he doesn't actually do it himself he most certainly enables other priests to.
I happen to be really good at telling off priests and reporting them when they don't meet my standards. If I had been there? I would have made him apologize to you, then gone to his Archdiocese and reported him.
Wow. Feel the love.
When Church actually wants to be loving and good and kind? Then so will I. I learned how to hate by going to church and how to finger point and how to judge others-- all the usual lessons one learns in Sunday school and Mass
Men of God are often WEAK. Never forget, they’re MEN. I found this out more than a few decades ago when, as an altar boy and family friend of our catholic parish priest who we all knew ogled, over-hugged and creepily sat too close to women and girls. He had two separate, older women housekeepers who suddenly left in the middle of the night. Never to be heard from, even by their best friends in the church except to say they were alright and not coming back. Everyone knew he likely made a move on them and bought their silence. I personally overheard another younger priest tell a man what someone else said in confession. Along those lines, the creepy parish priest threatened to “let out” some secret(s) my dad said in confession about our family if he exposed high level police corruption he uncovered that would ruin a few careers of friends, fellow board members & golf buddies of the priest. My father resigned his position and did nothing to stop the corruption. He was never the same after this, threats against our family and my mom being followed/surveilled shook him to his core. It also took a toll on my mother’s health and faith.
Men are human and many are very flawed.
Churches should have the separation laws enforced AND pay taxes! Church schools and other side businesses..Taxed! Church related expenses, priest pay, vehicles, food etc, ALL TAXED like the rest of us! They live pretty nice off grifting..I mean..Off the tithings of their gullible faithful flocks. Yep, like sheep!
Someday, sadly not in my lifetime.
Wow those poor women at your church. My pastor had a thing for very young boys under 3. He let them participate in the Mass because they were oh so cute. And a thing for priests. And he was an enabler. Which is almost just as bad. Priests can't hold a second job. I think they should. And get married. And oh yes please tax churches. That should do them all in! Even when the parishioners are wealthy they don't always give money.
“I’m disappointed with your presence at this solemn ceremony.”
Not a lot of confidence in his message, eh?
Seriously, what a dick!
It was astronomically condescending and rude. As if he thought the man did not even have a right to be there for his own nephew's christening because his lack of belief made him unworthy.
That priest's behavior was abominable.
Refresh my memory: "Bush the Lesser" was the bush NEXT to the Burning Bush, am I right? If memory serves, it was sort of *smoldering*....
https://x.com/aliciasadowski6/status/1821327378041217260
All churches in Milwaukee, Minnesota have been destroyed.
God has retired. I’m in charge now.
That's perfect.
It would seem as though dear Laura is looking at a BROWN sky. Why that is is left as an exercise for the student.
Ilsa Koch...er, Laura Ingraham, everyone...
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Laura_Ingraham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saCNObW9Uao
I forget, she’s not the one who failed high school, right?
In other 𝘵𝘰𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺, 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘦𝘵𝘦𝘭𝘺, 𝘢𝘣𝘴𝘰𝘭𝘶𝘵𝘦𝘭𝘺, 𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘶𝘯𝘳𝘦𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥 news, 98% of evangelical leaders have no control whatsoever over their clergy.
Few things ever demonstrated the disconnect between religion and morality quite like the evangelical preachers pledging their unconditional love for the most grotesquely immoral President in American history. Christians railed against the coming of the anti-Christ for centuries then when he showed up, they voted for him. I think they are delusional enough to believe Trump would be willing to share power with them. Donald Trump does not share his toys or play well with others. No group would be more ill-equipped to exercise power than the clergy.
Those who crave power the most, deserve it the least.
"98% of evangelical leaders say pastors shouldn't endorse candidates in the pulpit"
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!
Yeah, right. Pull the other one.
Has it got bells on?
So according to the NAE, churches walk the walk but we see they don’t actually talk the talk. Or rather they talk too much out of both sides of their mouths as evidenced by their own congregants. I suspect the IRS didn’t deal with this on the level they should have because of low staffing and not wanting to get into an extended shouting match with “persecuted” religious kooks.
For such a persecuted bunch they sure seem to be living well. Extravagantly, in some cases.
Helps to have the dominant religion in the country.
And a free-market approach to salvation.
Might be gun-shy after their run-in with Scientology.
The title would’ve been more accurate and honest if it said:
“98% of evangelical leaders are liars”
Hypocrites.
They're Evangelicals, Hypocrite is redundant.
Why not both?
You can have two; two offenses in one!
Agree. However, a genuine hypocrite is oblivious that their behavior is at odds with how they say they’d behave. They don’t realize they do not practice what they preach. Though I think evangelical leaders are expected by their congregation to hold forth on political issues and candidates. And cave they do.
Hemant, Hemant, Hemant. You got it wrong. You forgot this poll is about literalists (people whose words must be interpreted literally). So, when 98% said pastors shouldn't endorse a candidate from the pulpit, it's literally what they mean ! Now, for more accurate results, they should have been asked if pastors were allowed to endorse candidates while on the stage, or between the pews, or in the entryway, or on the parking lot...
I can't help but notice that a great number of the churches that pull these stunts have considerable stages, which may or may not have a lectern / pulpit / whatever as a focal point. The preachers who expound from such stages are well known to wander from Stage Left to Stage Right as they address their s̸h̸e̸e̸p̸ faithful.
Political endorsement from the pulpit thus become a moot technicality. Besides which, those fucks are going to do what they want until someone forcibly STOPS THEM.
OT: I think I need a nap. I thought my computer mouse had crapped out. I was wiggling it all over but couldn't find the cursor on the screen. I was about to change batteries when I realized I was looking at the TV screen instead of the computer screen. Defiantly nap time.
I tried to use my mouse on a glass-top table. It took me nearly ten minutes to figure out why my mouse wasn't working.
It wasn't plugged ? 😋
Wireless.
It does that sometimes. I click quickly twice and it works again.
How do I double click my brain?
The mouse never quit working. I was looking at the wrong screen. : )
That's what your mouse wants you to believe.
have you tried giving yourself a good smack in the head? used to have to do that with a old tv and it got the picture clear again.
When I smack my head marbles fall out of my ears.
I've had the wiggly mouse problem. But I don't have a TV and I wasn't sleepy so I have no excuse. :)
FWIW, I may have worn out a mouse. I right click and not a damn thing happens unless I press really hard.
My TV remote select button is like that.
My problem is my right click button is too sensitive.
𝐈𝐟 𝐘𝐨𝐮 𝐍𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫 𝐔𝐩𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐝𝐞𝐝 𝐘𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐌𝐨𝐮𝐬𝐞’𝐬 𝐒𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐬, 𝐘𝐨𝐮’𝐫𝐞 𝐌𝐢𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐎𝐮𝐭
https://www.howtogeek.com/if-you-never-upgraded-your-mouses-switches-youre-missing-out/
I would do that, but I'm afraid I would break the mouse while trying to take it apart.
Set your mouse to "Show location of pointer when I press CRTL key."
The location of my pointer is none of your business. : )
😜
Do you have a male or a female ?
It's a game of semantics.
When I attended a megachurch, they would, of course, never risk their tax exemption by endorsing a candidate. Heavens no. Too much money at stake.
They would however, preach culture war issues from the pulpit, talk about how the Federal courts were awful, and put out a voter's guide highlighting the "issues" and frame candidate responses in ways like "Does the candidate support protecting innocent life?" "Does the candidate support your right to defend your family?"
How about: "Does your family care if a woman has uterine sepsis or an ectopic pregnancy, both of which could be fatal to her?"
Sadly, with these guys, it's a case of Fetus, Fetus, Uber Alles...
"god swill" or something like that.
100% of evangelical leaders can't justify their beliefs.
"Plenty of conservative pastors, however, still argue that the rules are too onerous and they've deliberately tried to goad the IRS into revoking their tax-exempt status just so they can file a lawsuit over it."
konservative khristian konmen insist on violating Romans 13:1-7, which tells them to OBEY all earthly laws and authorities and WHY. It also tells them to pay their taxes and anything else they owe. This from the book they insist on shoving down the throats of others.
If they can change the laws to fit them, then they won't violate them anymore. Fundie logic 101.
Why change the laws when they can ignore them without consequence? They've been doing that for all to see and for longer than I care to contemplate, and until they are actively and aggressively confronted with their wrongdoing, the bullshit will continue.
dobbs.
Rewrite teh bibel? Naughty naughty. Revelation has dire consequences for anyone who changes scripture via addition or subtraction.
Also a tradition.
Hello! Separation of Church and State? Anybody? Anybody? Nobody has heard of separation of Church and State? Okay then when the government steps in to save churches from going under, then they can tell parishioners whom to vote for all they want but not until then. Still in favor of closing churches and making them affordable housing.
Separation of Church and State is in the process of the Death of 1000 Cuts, in part because it seems as though no one has the guts to confront churches that have blatantly gone political, and say, "Enough is enough. Either knock off the political preaching or kiss your 501(c)(3) status goodbye!
If our government won't play hardball with these guys, who will?
I posted this in the last thread but want more people to see it.
https://www.tmz.com/2024/08/07/tim-walz-protected-former-student-homophobic-bullying/?adid=social-tw
Walz served honorably for 24 years (as opposed to Vance's 4 years), and yet Vance called his opponent's service into question (what is it about Republicans criticizing Democrats military service? John Kerry, anyone)?
He criticized Walz, yet he's the running mate to a man who not only got 5 deferments to get out of serving, he also called those who DID serve (and sacrifice) "suckers and losers."
In addition:
Walz fully admits he never saw combat. What Vance conveniently fails to mention is that, as a Marine, HE never saw combat either. Vance was a correspondent in Iraq...for 6 months. That's it.
Apparently the swiftboat guy who slandered Kerry is on TFG's team. Figures?
https://www.alternet.org/benen-walz-vance-trump/
What's that thing that's the total opposite of surprised?
Startled.
". . . Vance joined the US Marine Corps, where he served from 2003 to 2007 as a combat correspondent in a non-combative role, including a six-month deployment in the public affairs department in Iraq."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JD_Vance
Kinda like Al Gore in Nam.
Not meant to diminish Gore. Just pointing out that Vance was no more heroic than Gore who was a military journalist.
Yep yep. August 2005 - February 2006.
Wonder if he requested a Purple Heart for paper cuts.
Can't say that I'm surprised. Ever since I became aware of Tim Walz, he has impressed me as a stand-up guy who clearly cares about others and is clearly about SERVICE. The above-cited article just reinforces that ... IN SPADES!
𝑊ℎ𝑦 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐼𝑅𝑆 𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑙𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐶𝐼𝐴? 𝑁𝑜 𝑐𝑙𝑢𝑒.
No clue? Seriously? This seems obvious to me. The IRS is under threat of severe defunding if they go after GOP representative's loudest constituents. From a pragmatic perspective, the 'payoff' in terms of value to government is not worth the 'cost' of losing the resources needed to go after bigger tax cheats.
Hemant gives good coverage of why the survey isn't representative of what goes on or real evangelical congregant + pastor beliefs about using the pulpit for political messages. Seems like the survey was a bit more of a PR stunt than anything else.
But as PR I wonder if it'll backfire. Not only will skeptics look and laugh at those numbers, but I imagine there's a whole bunch of Dominionists who will now take public issue with the NAE for implying a 'hands off' policy is correct and normal, when that's not a message they want the NAE to send.
Hey, if this creates more infighting within the evangelical community, I'm all for it. Just grab the beer and the popcorn and watch the fur fly. It won't be as much fun as watching Deadpool & Wolverine, but it'll be an amusing distraction at least.
Hugh Jackman makes a good straight man.
Hmmm....new superhero --
Huge Jockman
He did, while getting a good couple shots of his own in. He also did some damned fine acting in the midst of what otherwise could have been a poor farce, except that neither Jackman nor Reynolds would let it become such.
Needless to say, I enjoyed the hell out of it!
My aunt hated it, but then she had no interest in seeing any Deadpool movie. (I didn't know that when I suggested we go see it while I was in town for my IELTS test last weekend) Her daughter loved it as much as I did.
I will have to wait a couple of years to see it*. DM can't go to the movies anymore with the state of her knees.
* Exception culturelle de merde 🖕
I have little doubt but that, in a couple of months, Deadpool & Wolverine will be available from Disney+ or some equivalent service available to you.
Me? I'm old school. I'll likely get a 4K or Blu-Ray copy of it! 😁
Now you know all the bits I squeeeeeed over seeing. :)
"Your actions are speaking so loud, I can't hear what you're saying!"
That's how I feel about this survey and announcement. Supposedly 98% of evangelical leaders agree that promoting specific candidates from the pulpit is an improper practice, yet how many of that 98% ARE DOING JUST THAT??? This goes beyond ludicrous and into a whole new territory.
And I think a considerable portion of the blame here does indeed go to the IRS. I cannot remember the last time that the Johnson Amendment was enforced against ANY church, and I suspect it would take a considerable Google search to find such an incidence. It is far past time that SOMEONE (say from the Oval Office, maybe?!?) went to Danny Werfel, the current Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service, and read him the Riot Act.
So that HE can read it to a few megachurches I could name ... because this has gone on long enough.