White Evangelicals were on a high mountain and saw all of the kingdoms of the world, and Trump offered them it all if they simply worshipped him and they said, "Sure thing, Lord."
I remember being in the hallway at an FFRF conference shortly after Trump was elected the first time, commiserating with a bunch of strangers, when suddenly the thought occurred to me and I said aloud, "Do you think Trump is an atheist?"
It caught them short, then they all reluctantly agreed. One guy said "He thinks he IS god!"
The difference is that I doubt he knows he's an atheist—which makes me wonder if the term actually applies. He is his own religion and probably conflates himself with the Christian god the way he conflates himself with America. After all, he is the center of his delusional world in a way that somewhat parallels the religious person's relationship to their god.
In "The Ruling Class" Peter O'Toole played a lord who believes he's the Lord. When asked how he came to know he was Jesus, he says "when I was praying I realized I was talking to myself." I'd say that's closer to Trump's situation more than either Christianity or atheism.
Anyone who is genuinely fooled by Donald Trump's pseudo-religiosity should be inducted as a lifetime member of the Dunning-Kruger club. Sadly, there seem to be a lot of them out there who are not just willing but anxious to be fooled, for reasons I cannot divine.
What is disturbing is that blind willingness to be consistently hornswoggled and the consequences of that.
I lived within the NYC media market in the 80s when Trump was trying to Be Someone. As far as I could tell, everyone thought he was a huckster and a fraud.
Stories from that era of how he consistently refused to pay his contractors and vendors are legion. Did anyone ever sue the bastard?
If any one where I live had pulled that shit, they'd have been not only sued to kingdom come, but blacklisted as well. Pretty soon they wouldn't have been able to find anyone willing to work for them.
If he says he's Christian, he is. We'll have no bagpipes here. :)
Of course, by saying he's a Christian, he gets saddled with all the negative baggage the religion has accumulated over 2000 years. He's certainly adding to that baggage with every foul, immoral action he undertakes. Just like so very many of his brethren.
He does all the things we have seen other Christians do, so he must be one of them. It doesn't matter that none of that behavior lines up with what the public generally labels as "Christian".
The first step to dismantling Christian Fucking Privilege is to decouple the word "Christian" from the word "good" in the minds of the public.
He claims to be a Christian and aligns himself with Christians. What he actually thinks about the matter is irrelevant. I personally do not care what religious beliefs, if any, an elected leader professes. What i want is a leader who will actually serve all the people with compassion and integrity. Trump is the opposite of that.
Because whether or not he believes that a god exists is irrelevant to me. Is he actually an atheist? Possibly. He never publicly mentioned faith until he started courting evangelicals for votes. I would probably call him an apatheist, someone for whom the existence of a god never enters their mind, and they don't care either way.
I would have to say it doesn’t matter whether he is an atheist. Since he is a man without principles, it doesn’t matter whether he “believes” in atheism. For him it’s merely a means to an end.
He might be an atheist, he might not be. But what I’m absolutely sure of is that it doesn’t provide him any intellectual guidance or ethical framework.
He may not be a Christian by some definitions, but that doesn't mean he's an atheist. I doubt he has any conscious thought that no deity exists. My guess is that he doesn't fit into any of the standard categories of belief vs non-belief. He is the only real being in his world, and he conducts himself as if he believes he's a god—more or less in the tradition of Roman emperors and other rulers who took on the cloak of divinity with their office.
Trump is just as much a Christian as any other Christian, and he acts just as ethically as a great deal of clergy and powerful Christian leaders, especially the right leaning evangelical and fundamentalist sects. Perhaps he’s only claiming Christianity for the sake of gaining followers, still Christian. Just because he can’t parrot stupid Bible verses or pantomime the gestures, doesn’t mean he’s atheist , it just means he’s a lazy asshole not willing to learn shit for the show. Besides, he’s been suffering from dementia for as long as his Christianity mattered to other people. He couldn’t learn it even if he wasn’t a lazy bastard.
I don’t contradict folks claims of religion, they get to be whatever they claim they are, and both parties deserve the fallout for it.
The evangelical preachers surrounding Donald Trump can talk about their loving Jesus and the glorious afterlife from now on, but there is nothing they worship so much as power and control on this earthly plain. Power few groups would be more ill-equipped to exercise. Nothing ever demonstrated the disconnect between religion and morality quite like the evangelicals pledging their unconditional love for the most corrupt, incompetent and grotesquely immoral President in our history.
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."
George Orwell, 1984
"Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.'
George Orwell, 1984
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell, 1984
The MAGA base has become like Winston Smith at the end of the book afyer his brainwashing. The MAGA leadership knows this, and is using g their power to bring theocracy. It doesn't matter to them what kind of person Trump is, he is their means to their end goal of absolute power that theocracy brings.
I've published the following a number of times, but here's what the Bronze Buffoon really thought of his Christian supporters during his first administration
I have to disagree with Hemant here: “but he’ll never say he’s not a Christian, because he knows that would erode the support he needs.”
No, it will not. And I’d be willing to bet $500 that it would not. If they don’t care about his lies, his morals, his adultery, his self proclaimed sexual assault, his cons and grifts, his reviling and slandering, his profanity, his failure to show up in any church more than once a year, his fake lesbian sex porn star wife, his associations with Epstein, his felony convictions, and all the rest of his wrongdoing…
Why would they care at all about his non-Christianity? Their interests are power and money and religious Dominion. they’ve made that very clear. They’ve made every excuse for him already. Why would they stop now?
In one of the best books ever written, Tom Robbins’s “another roadside attraction”, Amanda tells the story of a guy who wanted to show the Folly of religion. So he invented one, and it was wildly successful. After a few years, he gathered all of his disciples and apostles together, and told them that everything he had said was a fake, that he had made the whole thing up. And wasn’t that hilarious? Were they going to learn about religious grifters?
What did they do? They killed him, and went on believing anyways.
Of course, Trump is a Christian, a particular brand of Christian known as Trumpian Christianity. It is a denomination with a particular group of followers, whose primary characteristic is a remarkable adherence to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It is also remarkable in the durability of its belief in its resistance to deconversion.
Which makes it one of the most dangerous forms of Christianity of all of them.
My belief is that anybody who says he’s a Christian is a Christian. It’s not like they have one book with one interpretation and one message from their one God..
The thing is, the word "Christianity" has come to mean so many different and frequently contradictory things to so many people, one wonders that the word could have any genuinely stable definition of its own.
OT: I’ve been remarkably lazy since I retired in August. My bride was just complaining about that to me. “Ever since you retired you just do whatever you want!”
Of course Trump isn’t religious. He has absolutely no respect for any religion,Christian,Muslim or otherwise.He mocked Islam and Christianity in one day. He pretended to be Christ in a post.The man is a devil or ant-Christ.
White Evangelicals were on a high mountain and saw all of the kingdoms of the world, and Trump offered them it all if they simply worshipped him and they said, "Sure thing, Lord."
I remember being in the hallway at an FFRF conference shortly after Trump was elected the first time, commiserating with a bunch of strangers, when suddenly the thought occurred to me and I said aloud, "Do you think Trump is an atheist?"
It caught them short, then they all reluctantly agreed. One guy said "He thinks he IS god!"
Above all else, he is a manipulator always looking to better himself. He will use the preachers as long as they're useful.
I’ve always considered him an atheist.
Thanks for saying so - "out loud."
As others have said, being atheist doesn’t mean that someone is a good person. Or even sensible.
True. Actions speak louder than words or labels.
That's why I left CFI and The Skeptic Society. I'm not keen on supporting anti-trans bigots, sex pests, and rapists.
The difference is that I doubt he knows he's an atheist—which makes me wonder if the term actually applies. He is his own religion and probably conflates himself with the Christian god the way he conflates himself with America. After all, he is the center of his delusional world in a way that somewhat parallels the religious person's relationship to their god.
In "The Ruling Class" Peter O'Toole played a lord who believes he's the Lord. When asked how he came to know he was Jesus, he says "when I was praying I realized I was talking to myself." I'd say that's closer to Trump's situation more than either Christianity or atheism.
"The Ruling Class" is a great movie and that is one of my favorite lines.
Anyone who is genuinely fooled by Donald Trump's pseudo-religiosity should be inducted as a lifetime member of the Dunning-Kruger club. Sadly, there seem to be a lot of them out there who are not just willing but anxious to be fooled, for reasons I cannot divine.
What is disturbing is that blind willingness to be consistently hornswoggled and the consequences of that.
I lived within the NYC media market in the 80s when Trump was trying to Be Someone. As far as I could tell, everyone thought he was a huckster and a fraud.
Especially the building contractors whom he cheated out of their contracts and payment.
Stories from that era of how he consistently refused to pay his contractors and vendors are legion. Did anyone ever sue the bastard?
If any one where I live had pulled that shit, they'd have been not only sued to kingdom come, but blacklisted as well. Pretty soon they wouldn't have been able to find anyone willing to work for them.
"lifetime member of the Dunning-Kruger club" rofl
I'm going to try to remember that one.
If he says he's Christian, he is. We'll have no bagpipes here. :)
Of course, by saying he's a Christian, he gets saddled with all the negative baggage the religion has accumulated over 2000 years. He's certainly adding to that baggage with every foul, immoral action he undertakes. Just like so very many of his brethren.
He does all the things we have seen other Christians do, so he must be one of them. It doesn't matter that none of that behavior lines up with what the public generally labels as "Christian".
The first step to dismantling Christian Fucking Privilege is to decouple the word "Christian" from the word "good" in the minds of the public.
Not to mention separating “Christian” from “moral.”
So you disagree. Do you think that Trump is a Christian and not an Atheist?
He claims to be a Christian and aligns himself with Christians. What he actually thinks about the matter is irrelevant. I personally do not care what religious beliefs, if any, an elected leader professes. What i want is a leader who will actually serve all the people with compassion and integrity. Trump is the opposite of that.
Why not acknowledge that Trump is an atheist?
Because whether or not he believes that a god exists is irrelevant to me. Is he actually an atheist? Possibly. He never publicly mentioned faith until he started courting evangelicals for votes. I would probably call him an apatheist, someone for whom the existence of a god never enters their mind, and they don't care either way.
I suspect that you don't want to acknowledge that Trump is an atheist -- that he has anything in common with you.
I would have to say it doesn’t matter whether he is an atheist. Since he is a man without principles, it doesn’t matter whether he “believes” in atheism. For him it’s merely a means to an end.
He might be an atheist, he might not be. But what I’m absolutely sure of is that it doesn’t provide him any intellectual guidance or ethical framework.
Let us ask two questions here:
1. Has Trump ever said that he is Christian?
2. Has Trump ever said that he is an atheist?
Yes, Trump has said he is Christian.
He said he is Christian. Ergo he is one.
People can be bad Christians and evil Christians.
Do you think Trump is an atheist? If so, why not say so?
He may not be a Christian by some definitions, but that doesn't mean he's an atheist. I doubt he has any conscious thought that no deity exists. My guess is that he doesn't fit into any of the standard categories of belief vs non-belief. He is the only real being in his world, and he conducts himself as if he believes he's a god—more or less in the tradition of Roman emperors and other rulers who took on the cloak of divinity with their office.
Trump is just as much a Christian as any other Christian, and he acts just as ethically as a great deal of clergy and powerful Christian leaders, especially the right leaning evangelical and fundamentalist sects. Perhaps he’s only claiming Christianity for the sake of gaining followers, still Christian. Just because he can’t parrot stupid Bible verses or pantomime the gestures, doesn’t mean he’s atheist , it just means he’s a lazy asshole not willing to learn shit for the show. Besides, he’s been suffering from dementia for as long as his Christianity mattered to other people. He couldn’t learn it even if he wasn’t a lazy bastard.
I don’t contradict folks claims of religion, they get to be whatever they claim they are, and both parties deserve the fallout for it.
The evangelical preachers surrounding Donald Trump can talk about their loving Jesus and the glorious afterlife from now on, but there is nothing they worship so much as power and control on this earthly plain. Power few groups would be more ill-equipped to exercise. Nothing ever demonstrated the disconnect between religion and morality quite like the evangelicals pledging their unconditional love for the most corrupt, incompetent and grotesquely immoral President in our history.
He said what they wanted to hear and gave them permission to be the same kind of gaping asshole he is.
The traitor can join the rest of the gods in the rubbish bin. Unfortunately, for the time being, he is real.
Trump says a lot of stupid shit. Whether he professes his faith in God & Jesus or not, he's wrong either way.
His patron saint is Saint Simeon of Salus (aka Sineon the Holy Fool), the primary patron saint of fools.
𝑆𝑜𝑚𝑒ℎ𝑜𝑤, 𝑏𝑜𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑒.
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."
George Orwell, 1984
"Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.'
George Orwell, 1984
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell, 1984
The MAGA base has become like Winston Smith at the end of the book afyer his brainwashing. The MAGA leadership knows this, and is using g their power to bring theocracy. It doesn't matter to them what kind of person Trump is, he is their means to their end goal of absolute power that theocracy brings.
Trump is a means to an end for them, simply because he allows them access to power and to let their bigoted views become mainstream.
I've published the following a number of times, but here's what the Bronze Buffoon really thought of his Christian supporters during his first administration
theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-secretly-mocks-his-christian-supporters/616522/
So, it's not like we haven't known how Trump rolls. Question is: Why haven't his xtian supporters?
To do that we would have to suspect that they can read,evidence not supported.
LOL. If it's not a coloring book, they don't know what to do with it.
Edited to get correct article
They take everything he says "on faith."
I have to disagree with Hemant here: “but he’ll never say he’s not a Christian, because he knows that would erode the support he needs.”
No, it will not. And I’d be willing to bet $500 that it would not. If they don’t care about his lies, his morals, his adultery, his self proclaimed sexual assault, his cons and grifts, his reviling and slandering, his profanity, his failure to show up in any church more than once a year, his fake lesbian sex porn star wife, his associations with Epstein, his felony convictions, and all the rest of his wrongdoing…
Why would they care at all about his non-Christianity? Their interests are power and money and religious Dominion. they’ve made that very clear. They’ve made every excuse for him already. Why would they stop now?
In one of the best books ever written, Tom Robbins’s “another roadside attraction”, Amanda tells the story of a guy who wanted to show the Folly of religion. So he invented one, and it was wildly successful. After a few years, he gathered all of his disciples and apostles together, and told them that everything he had said was a fake, that he had made the whole thing up. And wasn’t that hilarious? Were they going to learn about religious grifters?
What did they do? They killed him, and went on believing anyways.
Of course, Trump is a Christian, a particular brand of Christian known as Trumpian Christianity. It is a denomination with a particular group of followers, whose primary characteristic is a remarkable adherence to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It is also remarkable in the durability of its belief in its resistance to deconversion.
Which makes it one of the most dangerous forms of Christianity of all of them.
My belief is that anybody who says he’s a Christian is a Christian. It’s not like they have one book with one interpretation and one message from their one God..
The thing is, the word "Christianity" has come to mean so many different and frequently contradictory things to so many people, one wonders that the word could have any genuinely stable definition of its own.
Personally, I wonder about that mightily.
Paraphrasing the immortal words of his Holiness Humpty Dumpty XXX: Christianity means whatever I say it means. Nothing more and nothing less.
OT: I’ve been remarkably lazy since I retired in August. My bride was just complaining about that to me. “Ever since you retired you just do whatever you want!”
Me: umm, yeah.
Isn't doing whatever you want kinda the whole point of retirement? ;)
Apparently I’m supposed to paint some shelves and power wash the patio. When I’d rather be here looking for a pun thread.
Doing work is what you just escaped. :D
Of course Trump isn’t religious. He has absolutely no respect for any religion,Christian,Muslim or otherwise.He mocked Islam and Christianity in one day. He pretended to be Christ in a post.The man is a devil or ant-Christ.
Less devil or antichrist than self-involved toxic narcissist, made far worse by holding the most powerful office in the world.
Except he said he was religious.
Trump said he was not "very religious" which is still religious.
He is only religious in that he thinks he is gawd.
Since when do you believe Trump?
He also says he likes Diet Coke. Should I assume he's lying about that too? Not all religious people are good. Why can't you say he's a bad Christian?
Because I don’t believe that Trump is a bad Christian. I think Trump is an atheist - a bad atheist.
Why don't you want to believe he is a Christian despite him acting like one?
Because she is desperate for him to be an atheist, and not to be a Christian.
To be honest, it is getting dull. All she deals in is unsubstantiated assertions.
Can you say "motivated reasoning"?
I knew you could...
Why do you assume that Trump is lying when he says he is not "very religious"?
𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛𝑠 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑎𝑠𝑡 𝑑𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑑𝑒 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑇𝑟𝑢𝑚𝑝 𝑖𝑠 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑜𝑤𝑛
He IS one of their own: they are cultural authoritarian conservatives first, Jesus followers a distant last. Just like him.