White Evangelicals were on a high mountain and saw all of the kingdoms of the world, and Trump offered them it all if they simply worshipped him and they said, "Sure thing, Lord."
I remember being in the hallway at an FFRF conference shortly after Trump was elected the first time, commiserating with a bunch of strangers, when suddenly the thought occurred to me and I said aloud, "Do you think Trump is an atheist?"
It caught them short, then they all reluctantly agreed. One guy said "He thinks he IS god!"
The difference is that I doubt he knows he's an atheist—which makes me wonder if the term actually applies. He is his own religion and probably conflates himself with the Christian god the way he conflates himself with America. After all, he is the center of his delusional world in a way that somewhat parallels the religious person's relationship to their god.
In "The Ruling Class" Peter O'Toole played a lord who believes he's the Lord. When asked how he came to know he was Jesus, he says "when I was praying I realized I was talking to myself." I'd say that's closer to Trump's situation more than either Christianity or atheism.
The term "atheist" applies to Trump - he is not a theist. He does not believe in God. He is not a theist. He shares that one trait with many of the people here.
I understand that most, probably all, the people here don't like Trump, but still, he is an atheist.
As I keep saying to commenters at Christian Post, knowing that someone is atheist means you know one single thing about them. You don’t know anything more than that.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I'll proceed with not.
Short answer: Sadly, yes.
Long answer:
CFI has taken the "according to science gender is binary" stance, but nature stubbornly refuses to be boxed in by "science." It's much more complex than a simplistic binary view. It specifically ignores science (biological sex is bimodal - https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-science-of-biological-sex/), but also, it specifically ignores psychology (how people feel about their identity) and sociology (gender is a social construct based on physical markers). They also backed Lawrence Krauss, known sex pest and defender of Epstein. CFI was warned that he (Krauss) was preying on women at their conventions. But they chose to ignore the warnings and his activities. His celebrity was more important than protecting women. I'm not sure of their current association with Krauss. They've also ignored concerns about racism within the organization as well, preemptively taking action (attacking) after a black staff member resigned.
The Skeptic Society. Shermer has also taken the "sex is binary stance" and he's a professor of psychology. Again, a choice. One that I suspect is motivated by his irrelevance within the skeptical community, he finds incredible engagement on his substack and Twitter account. That's more important to him than his most vocal supporters are right-leaning climate deniers who use his content to justify their anti-trans bigotry. There are accusations against Shermer of sexually harassing two students. Outside of that I read one report of a potential rape incident where he got a woman drunk, while he was pretending to drink, then took her back to his room. It was actually two guys that noticed he was faking drinking and called him out. He hunted them down the next morning to silence them about his faux drinking, then contacted the convention coordinator to let her know that he dealt with the rumors and stopped them from spreading. She wondered exactly why he contacted her if, since in his mind, it was consensual. She had heard nothing herself, so she contacted the woman and got a very different story from her. If it was consensual, then why the concern? She was drunk, but I guess if he was "drunk," then everything is a-okay. A secondhand account, sure. But in our world where rape culture* thrives and believes "women are seductive vixens that lie," the account is a little too real.
I also encourage you to read about Elevatorgate. Rebecca Watson, aka skepchick, was propositioned in an elevator (where a woman can't actually leave if she's uncomfortable), this was after her talk on that exact topic. She mentioned the incident, but didn't name anyone. This fractured the skeptic community and Dawkins (on the CFI board of directors) belittled her because Muslim women have it so much harder than Western woman, so why is a white woman whining about being asked to have sex? (You know, because if someone has it worse than you, then what you're going through isn't a problem, so "shut the fuck up.") I thought he was being a stupid ass and lost some respect for him, but he just got worse. He eventually did semi-apologize in a weak non-apology way. But I'm done with him.
Being a skeptic is no more a morality shield than being a christian. Patriarchy is the cornerstone of society and not part of it immune to the problems it causes.
The Skeptic Society is where I cut my skeptic chops. I have several of Shermer's books, he's a very good writer. Several people I admire founded CFI. I think what they do is important. It wasn't an easy choice to leave. I don't expect perfection from anyone. But, some actions are indefensible and when there's no accountability, consequence, or atonement, I can't support an organization the pretends to care. What's the difference between shielding sex pests and protecting podophiles?
They aren't the only skeptic/humanist organizations. So, I took my support elsewhere.
In contrast, FFRF also responded poorly to anti-trans bigotry within their ranks (Jerry Coyne, also a misogynist). Hemant also wrote about it here. They eventually rectified their mistake and apologized. They also didn't just back Coyne because of his celebrity within the community. Coyne, Stephen Pinker, and Dawkins all resigned FFRF. FFRF is better for it.
Being a skeptic is also not a shield to being wrong no matter how prominent one is.
* I mentioned at work that Cosby raped women and was promptly attacked verbally by a Cosby defender.
Anyone who is genuinely fooled by Donald Trump's pseudo-religiosity should be inducted as a lifetime member of the Dunning-Kruger club. Sadly, there seem to be a lot of them out there who are not just willing but anxious to be fooled, for reasons I cannot divine.
What is disturbing is that blind willingness to be consistently hornswoggled and the consequences of that.
I lived within the NYC media market in the 80s when Trump was trying to Be Someone. As far as I could tell, everyone thought he was a huckster and a fraud.
"From 1973 and until he was elected president in 2016, Donald Trump and his businesses were involved in over 4,000 legal cases in United States federal and state courts, including battles with casino patrons, million-dollar real estate lawsuits, personal defamation lawsuits, and over 100 business tax disputes.
If he says he's Christian, he is. We'll have no bagpipes here. :)
Of course, by saying he's a Christian, he gets saddled with all the negative baggage the religion has accumulated 2000 years. He's certainly adding to that baggage with every foul, immoral action he undertakes. Just like so very many of his brethren.
He does all the things we have seen other Christians do, so he must be one of them. It doesn't matter that none of that behavior lines up with what the public generally labels as "Christian".
The first step to dismantling Christian Fucking Privilege is to decouple the word "Christian" from the word "good" in the minds of the public.
He claims to be a Christian and aligns himself with Christians. What he actually thinks about the matter is irrelevant. I personally do not care what religious beliefs, if any, an elected leader professes. What i want is a leader who will actually serve all the people with compassion and integrity. Trump is the opposite of that.
Because whether or not he believes that a god exists is irrelevant to me. Is he actually an atheist? Possibly. He never publicly mentioned faith until he started courting evangelicals for votes. I would probably call him an apatheist, someone for whom the existence of a god never enters their mind, and they don't care either way.
I would have to say it doesn’t matter whether he is an atheist. Since he is a man without principles, it doesn’t matter whether he “believes” in atheism. For him it’s merely a means to an end.
He might be an atheist, he might not be. But what I’m absolutely sure of is that it doesn’t provide him any intellectual guidance or ethical framework.
Thank you - with a question like this that involves someone’s inner beliefs, all we can do is take any answer at face value.
Many people will declare that they belong to one of another religious group for many reasons (however grand or flimsy), but denying any religion is a much harder, and more definitive step in certain cultures, including US (based on my outsider perspective).
I’m pretty sure that any politician would think long and hard about declaring themselves an atheist in that climate, which is very weird to me as a British person (we really don’t care anywhere near as much on the whole).
He may not be a Christian by some definitions, but that doesn't mean he's an atheist. I doubt he has any conscious thought that no deity exists. My guess is that he doesn't fit into any of the standard categories of belief vs non-belief. He is the only real being in his world, and he conducts himself as if he believes he's a god—more or less in the tradition of Roman emperors and other rulers who took on the cloak of divinity with their office.
Whatever passes for a belief in that rancid tapioca pudding in his skull is entirely irrelevant. Evangelical Christians made him. It's their agenda he's advancing; he belongs in their camp. There was no groundswell of atheist support for that fetid orange fuck to run for office; I can think of a handful of mid-tier atheist podcast bros who sung his tune, but they were hardly a driving force behind his campaign. That man is entirely the creation of the Christian right, from the multimillionaire Fox News hosts who spread his propaganda down to the churchgoing, red-hat-wearing, bible-beating, blue collar conservatives who voted him in. Without them, there is no him- so it doesn't matter what he believes. They own him. He's their monster.
Not enough of them. And it really doesn't matter unless the Rethuglicans repeal the change they made out of anger after FDR won his fourth term as prez.
Unfortunately, like many of these beliefs – they are incredibly stubborn and hard to get rid of. There was an article in the British newspaper the express about "curing" a UFO conspiracy theorist I think it was. It was arduous. And of course if they renounce their beliefs they lose their whole support structure of friends and family often. Not just lose necessarily, but become actively hostile.
Trump is just as much a Christian as any other Christian, and he acts just as ethically as a great deal of clergy and powerful Christian leaders, especially the right leaning evangelical and fundamentalist sects. Perhaps he’s only claiming Christianity for the sake of gaining followers, still Christian. Just because he can’t parrot stupid Bible verses or pantomime the gestures, doesn’t mean he’s atheist , it just means he’s a lazy asshole not willing to learn shit for the show. Besides, he’s been suffering from dementia for as long as his Christianity mattered to other people. He couldn’t learn it even if he wasn’t a lazy bastard.
I don’t contradict folks claims of religion, they get to be whatever they claim they are, and both parties deserve the fallout for it.
I do think that Trump is lying about being religious.
Most people, according to the survey, think Trump is not religious. I think that the religious people who voted for him generally don't care whether Trump is religious or not, as long as he "sticks it to the Libs."
What you think and what anyone else thinks is not evidence that he is an atheist. Just that he is a bad Christian.
I don’t know why you think it is important for atheists to claim him when he isn’t trying to claim atheism. And the fact that he’s worried about going to heaven in his dementia shows that he does actually believe in god. Just like being drunk will lower inhibitions and open a person up to revealing their true feelings, his current state of mind has allowed him to express his real fears.
At any rate we can deny he is an atheist and still believe that atheists can be bad. I see bad atheists all the time, even those atheists that are seen as representatives of atheism. I do not deny their atheism and I am still willing to condemn them for being bad. Sexists, misogynists, rapists, racists, and white supremacists have all claimed atheism and I’m willing to accept that claim. But folks demanding we accept Christian’s who aren’t good Christian’s because of the Christian way of trying to pass off the worst of themselves onto other groups won’t work. Hitler was a Christian, Trump is too. Other historical dictators that everyone thrusts on atheism are rarely ever actual atheists, just embarrassing toward their respective religions. No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy for a reason. Trump doesn’t act like respectable Christians expect him to, so that is why they don’t claim him, but he does act like more Christians than they want to admit. Much in the same way the RCC wants to claim their rapist priests are just gay men taking advantage of the church, but they’re priests just like any other priest.
You can be stubborn and keep your opinion on Trump being an atheist. Makes no difference to anyone other than yourself. But your behavior here is just rude.
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."
George Orwell, 1984
"Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.'
George Orwell, 1984
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell, 1984
The MAGA base has become like Winston Smith at the end of the book afyer his brainwashing. The MAGA leadership knows this, and is using g their power to bring theocracy. It doesn't matter to them what kind of person Trump is, he is their means to their end goal of absolute power that theocracy brings.
The evangelical preachers surrounding Donald Trump can talk about their loving Jesus and the glorious afterlife from now on, but there is nothing they worship so much as power and control on this earthly plain. Power few groups would be more ill-equipped to exercise. Nothing ever demonstrated the disconnect between religion and morality quite like the evangelicals pledging their unconditional love for the most corrupt, incompetent and grotesquely immoral President in our history.
I have to disagree with Hemant here: “but he’ll never say he’s not a Christian, because he knows that would erode the support he needs.”
No, it will not. And I’d be willing to bet $500 that it would not. If they don’t care about his lies, his morals, his adultery, his self proclaimed sexual assault, his cons and grifts, his reviling and slandering, his profanity, his failure to show up in any church more than once a year, his fake lesbian sex porn star wife, his associations with Epstein, his felony convictions, and all the rest of his wrongdoing…
Why would they care at all about his non-Christianity? Their interests are power and money and religious Dominion. they’ve made that very clear. They’ve made every excuse for him already. Why would they stop now?
In one of the best books ever written, Tom Robbins’s “another roadside attraction”, Amanda tells the story of a guy who wanted to show the Folly of religion. So he invented one, and it was wildly successful. After a few years, he gathered all of his disciples and apostles together, and told them that everything he had said was a fake, that he had made the whole thing up. And wasn’t that hilarious? Were they going to learn about religious grifters?
What did they do? They killed him, and went on believing anyways.
Of course, Trump is a Christian, a particular brand of Christian known as Trumpian Christianity. It is a denomination with a particular group of followers, whose primary characteristic is a remarkable adherence to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It is also remarkable in the durability of its belief in its resistance to deconversion.
Which makes it one of the most dangerous forms of Christianity of all of them.
My belief is that anybody who says he’s a Christian is a Christian. It’s not like they have one book with one interpretation and one message from their one God..
The thing is, the word "Christianity" has come to mean so many different and frequently contradictory things to so many people, one wonders that the word could have any genuinely stable definition of its own.
> "My belief is that anybody who says he’s a Christian is a Christian."
Trump says he is the least racist person on the planet, therefore he IS the least racist person on the planet. No, I don't think so. Lying about having a certain attribute doesn't give you that attribute.
As an aside, I would like to respond to the alternative the poll offers, that Trump is "not too religious." I would say, no, actually, he's "too damn religious!" He gives those reactionary Christian fanatics exactly what they want, which is, as Mr. Mehta says, lip service to their demands as well as nominating right-wing judges who will bend the law their way. They don't care about his corruption. They're used to that in their megachurch pastors.
Apparently some economists in the Trump admin have done the research and come to the conclusion that without Trump's tariffs, prices would be at pre-covid levels. Farron has something about it.
Nevermind that a couple thousand of them are living aboard a ship that suffered a major fire, which wiped out a bunch of their quarters and personal effects, but the ship still hasn't been pulled off the line for 𝘢𝘵 𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘵 repairs and resupply because... reasons? I couldn't blame those sailors if they staged a mutiny, at this point. They're being treated worse than convicts, and considering the state of our prison system, that's really saying something.
I would love to know what Donnie's going to do when the carriers and support ships that are fighting this war can no longer function because their crews have not been fed!
Also worth considering... US munitions stockpiles are getting pretty badly depleted. That means digging deep into reserves of things that go boom which are well past their sell-by date... on top of disregarding safety practices to maintain the operational tempo expected by senior leadership.
Oh yeah, we are all going to starve by the end of the year, and food will be sparse for years to come. Since the fertilizer the world uses to grow crops has been stuck in the straight won’t be available for this year’s crops (it’s already too late). As well as the fuel needed to transport anything won’t be available.
I have felt that everyone cares, just that they are fighting to keep women suffering. They sure spend a lot of time and energy and legislation ensuring we suffer.
I've said more times than I can count: "I'm glad to help." And that means ANYONE who needs help. It's at least one reason I'm a troubleshooter. It feels GOOD to help, to make a positive difference.
White Evangelicals were on a high mountain and saw all of the kingdoms of the world, and Trump offered them it all if they simply worshipped him and they said, "Sure thing, Lord."
...and then he stiffed them and kept it all for himself, and they learned nothing at all. The end.
I remember being in the hallway at an FFRF conference shortly after Trump was elected the first time, commiserating with a bunch of strangers, when suddenly the thought occurred to me and I said aloud, "Do you think Trump is an atheist?"
It caught them short, then they all reluctantly agreed. One guy said "He thinks he IS god!"
Above all else, he is a manipulator always looking to better himself. He will use the preachers as long as they're useful.
Eventually they too will suffer the same fate as Noem and Bondi.
I’ve always considered him an atheist.
I consider him a megalomaniac, worships 2 things: himself and money.
that too
Thanks for saying so - "out loud."
The difference is that I doubt he knows he's an atheist—which makes me wonder if the term actually applies. He is his own religion and probably conflates himself with the Christian god the way he conflates himself with America. After all, he is the center of his delusional world in a way that somewhat parallels the religious person's relationship to their god.
In "The Ruling Class" Peter O'Toole played a lord who believes he's the Lord. When asked how he came to know he was Jesus, he says "when I was praying I realized I was talking to myself." I'd say that's closer to Trump's situation more than either Christianity or atheism.
"The Ruling Class" is a great movie and that is one of my favorite lines.
I love that movie! Haven’t seen it in forever.
The term "atheist" applies to Trump - he is not a theist. He does not believe in God. He is not a theist. He shares that one trait with many of the people here.
I understand that most, probably all, the people here don't like Trump, but still, he is an atheist.
As others have said, being atheist doesn’t mean that someone is a good person. Or even sensible.
Being an Atheist doesn't mean they're a bad person either.
As I keep saying to commenters at Christian Post, knowing that someone is atheist means you know one single thing about them. You don’t know anything more than that.
And yet, Linda's whole thing is, "Trump is a bad person ergo he's an Atheist".
True. Actions speak louder than words or labels.
That's why I left CFI and The Skeptic Society. I'm not keen on supporting anti-trans bigots, sex pests, and rapists.
Are you saying that there are anti-trans bigots, sex pests and rapists at CFI and The Skeptic Society?
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I'll proceed with not.
Short answer: Sadly, yes.
Long answer:
CFI has taken the "according to science gender is binary" stance, but nature stubbornly refuses to be boxed in by "science." It's much more complex than a simplistic binary view. It specifically ignores science (biological sex is bimodal - https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-science-of-biological-sex/), but also, it specifically ignores psychology (how people feel about their identity) and sociology (gender is a social construct based on physical markers). They also backed Lawrence Krauss, known sex pest and defender of Epstein. CFI was warned that he (Krauss) was preying on women at their conventions. But they chose to ignore the warnings and his activities. His celebrity was more important than protecting women. I'm not sure of their current association with Krauss. They've also ignored concerns about racism within the organization as well, preemptively taking action (attacking) after a black staff member resigned.
The Skeptic Society. Shermer has also taken the "sex is binary stance" and he's a professor of psychology. Again, a choice. One that I suspect is motivated by his irrelevance within the skeptical community, he finds incredible engagement on his substack and Twitter account. That's more important to him than his most vocal supporters are right-leaning climate deniers who use his content to justify their anti-trans bigotry. There are accusations against Shermer of sexually harassing two students. Outside of that I read one report of a potential rape incident where he got a woman drunk, while he was pretending to drink, then took her back to his room. It was actually two guys that noticed he was faking drinking and called him out. He hunted them down the next morning to silence them about his faux drinking, then contacted the convention coordinator to let her know that he dealt with the rumors and stopped them from spreading. She wondered exactly why he contacted her if, since in his mind, it was consensual. She had heard nothing herself, so she contacted the woman and got a very different story from her. If it was consensual, then why the concern? She was drunk, but I guess if he was "drunk," then everything is a-okay. A secondhand account, sure. But in our world where rape culture* thrives and believes "women are seductive vixens that lie," the account is a little too real.
I also encourage you to read about Elevatorgate. Rebecca Watson, aka skepchick, was propositioned in an elevator (where a woman can't actually leave if she's uncomfortable), this was after her talk on that exact topic. She mentioned the incident, but didn't name anyone. This fractured the skeptic community and Dawkins (on the CFI board of directors) belittled her because Muslim women have it so much harder than Western woman, so why is a white woman whining about being asked to have sex? (You know, because if someone has it worse than you, then what you're going through isn't a problem, so "shut the fuck up.") I thought he was being a stupid ass and lost some respect for him, but he just got worse. He eventually did semi-apologize in a weak non-apology way. But I'm done with him.
Being a skeptic is no more a morality shield than being a christian. Patriarchy is the cornerstone of society and not part of it immune to the problems it causes.
The Skeptic Society is where I cut my skeptic chops. I have several of Shermer's books, he's a very good writer. Several people I admire founded CFI. I think what they do is important. It wasn't an easy choice to leave. I don't expect perfection from anyone. But, some actions are indefensible and when there's no accountability, consequence, or atonement, I can't support an organization the pretends to care. What's the difference between shielding sex pests and protecting podophiles?
They aren't the only skeptic/humanist organizations. So, I took my support elsewhere.
In contrast, FFRF also responded poorly to anti-trans bigotry within their ranks (Jerry Coyne, also a misogynist). Hemant also wrote about it here. They eventually rectified their mistake and apologized. They also didn't just back Coyne because of his celebrity within the community. Coyne, Stephen Pinker, and Dawkins all resigned FFRF. FFRF is better for it.
Being a skeptic is also not a shield to being wrong no matter how prominent one is.
* I mentioned at work that Cosby raped women and was promptly attacked verbally by a Cosby defender.
If he thinks he's God then that mean's he's not an Atheist.
Only one person said that. Could be that person was wrong.
Anyone who is genuinely fooled by Donald Trump's pseudo-religiosity should be inducted as a lifetime member of the Dunning-Kruger club. Sadly, there seem to be a lot of them out there who are not just willing but anxious to be fooled, for reasons I cannot divine.
What is disturbing is that blind willingness to be consistently hornswoggled and the consequences of that.
I lived within the NYC media market in the 80s when Trump was trying to Be Someone. As far as I could tell, everyone thought he was a huckster and a fraud.
Especially the building contractors whom he cheated out of their contracts and payment.
They sued and Trump dragged it out until it cost more to recover the money. He bragged about it.
"From 1973 and until he was elected president in 2016, Donald Trump and his businesses were involved in over 4,000 legal cases in United States federal and state courts, including battles with casino patrons, million-dollar real estate lawsuits, personal defamation lawsuits, and over 100 business tax disputes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_and_business_legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump
I suspect they like him because he makes it okay for them to hate the people they hate.
That is all but established fact!
And he is as stupid as they are.
"lifetime member of the Dunning-Kruger club" rofl
I'm going to try to remember that one.
Glad you liked it!
If he says he's Christian, he is. We'll have no bagpipes here. :)
Of course, by saying he's a Christian, he gets saddled with all the negative baggage the religion has accumulated 2000 years. He's certainly adding to that baggage with every foul, immoral action he undertakes. Just like so very many of his brethren.
He does all the things we have seen other Christians do, so he must be one of them. It doesn't matter that none of that behavior lines up with what the public generally labels as "Christian".
The first step to dismantling Christian Fucking Privilege is to decouple the word "Christian" from the word "good" in the minds of the public.
Not to mention separating “Christian” from “moral.”
So you disagree. Do you think that Trump is a Christian and not an Atheist?
He claims to be a Christian and aligns himself with Christians. What he actually thinks about the matter is irrelevant. I personally do not care what religious beliefs, if any, an elected leader professes. What i want is a leader who will actually serve all the people with compassion and integrity. Trump is the opposite of that.
Why not acknowledge that Trump is an atheist?
Because whether or not he believes that a god exists is irrelevant to me. Is he actually an atheist? Possibly. He never publicly mentioned faith until he started courting evangelicals for votes. I would probably call him an apatheist, someone for whom the existence of a god never enters their mind, and they don't care either way.
I suspect that you don't want to acknowledge that Trump is an atheist -- that he has anything in common with you.
I would have to say it doesn’t matter whether he is an atheist. Since he is a man without principles, it doesn’t matter whether he “believes” in atheism. For him it’s merely a means to an end.
He might be an atheist, he might not be. But what I’m absolutely sure of is that it doesn’t provide him any intellectual guidance or ethical framework.
I agree that Trump is a man without principals and didn't know that atheism was anything that people "believed" in.
I agree that Trump lacks an ethical framework and I think he is an atheist.
Let us ask two questions here:
1. Has Trump ever said that he is Christian?
2. Has Trump ever said that he is an atheist?
Yes, Trump has said he is Christian.
He recently posted an image of himself as Jesus. Healing the sick no less.
He said he is Christian. Ergo he is one.
People can be bad Christians and evil Christians.
Thank you - with a question like this that involves someone’s inner beliefs, all we can do is take any answer at face value.
Many people will declare that they belong to one of another religious group for many reasons (however grand or flimsy), but denying any religion is a much harder, and more definitive step in certain cultures, including US (based on my outsider perspective).
I’m pretty sure that any politician would think long and hard about declaring themselves an atheist in that climate, which is very weird to me as a British person (we really don’t care anywhere near as much on the whole).
Do you think Trump is an atheist? If so, why not say so?
He may not be a Christian by some definitions, but that doesn't mean he's an atheist. I doubt he has any conscious thought that no deity exists. My guess is that he doesn't fit into any of the standard categories of belief vs non-belief. He is the only real being in his world, and he conducts himself as if he believes he's a god—more or less in the tradition of Roman emperors and other rulers who took on the cloak of divinity with their office.
Whatever passes for a belief in that rancid tapioca pudding in his skull is entirely irrelevant. Evangelical Christians made him. It's their agenda he's advancing; he belongs in their camp. There was no groundswell of atheist support for that fetid orange fuck to run for office; I can think of a handful of mid-tier atheist podcast bros who sung his tune, but they were hardly a driving force behind his campaign. That man is entirely the creation of the Christian right, from the multimillionaire Fox News hosts who spread his propaganda down to the churchgoing, red-hat-wearing, bible-beating, blue collar conservatives who voted him in. Without them, there is no him- so it doesn't matter what he believes. They own him. He's their monster.
I agree with you completely, Joan. I will add, that I think some "Christians" regret voting for him and would not vote for him again.
Not enough of them. And it really doesn't matter unless the Rethuglicans repeal the change they made out of anger after FDR won his fourth term as prez.
Unfortunately, like many of these beliefs – they are incredibly stubborn and hard to get rid of. There was an article in the British newspaper the express about "curing" a UFO conspiracy theorist I think it was. It was arduous. And of course if they renounce their beliefs they lose their whole support structure of friends and family often. Not just lose necessarily, but become actively hostile.
You mean after the 3rd time they voted for him? The damage is done.
Trump is just as much a Christian as any other Christian, and he acts just as ethically as a great deal of clergy and powerful Christian leaders, especially the right leaning evangelical and fundamentalist sects. Perhaps he’s only claiming Christianity for the sake of gaining followers, still Christian. Just because he can’t parrot stupid Bible verses or pantomime the gestures, doesn’t mean he’s atheist , it just means he’s a lazy asshole not willing to learn shit for the show. Besides, he’s been suffering from dementia for as long as his Christianity mattered to other people. He couldn’t learn it even if he wasn’t a lazy bastard.
I don’t contradict folks claims of religion, they get to be whatever they claim they are, and both parties deserve the fallout for it.
I do think that Trump is lying about being religious.
Most people, according to the survey, think Trump is not religious. I think that the religious people who voted for him generally don't care whether Trump is religious or not, as long as he "sticks it to the Libs."
What you think and what anyone else thinks is not evidence that he is an atheist. Just that he is a bad Christian.
I don’t know why you think it is important for atheists to claim him when he isn’t trying to claim atheism. And the fact that he’s worried about going to heaven in his dementia shows that he does actually believe in god. Just like being drunk will lower inhibitions and open a person up to revealing their true feelings, his current state of mind has allowed him to express his real fears.
At any rate we can deny he is an atheist and still believe that atheists can be bad. I see bad atheists all the time, even those atheists that are seen as representatives of atheism. I do not deny their atheism and I am still willing to condemn them for being bad. Sexists, misogynists, rapists, racists, and white supremacists have all claimed atheism and I’m willing to accept that claim. But folks demanding we accept Christian’s who aren’t good Christian’s because of the Christian way of trying to pass off the worst of themselves onto other groups won’t work. Hitler was a Christian, Trump is too. Other historical dictators that everyone thrusts on atheism are rarely ever actual atheists, just embarrassing toward their respective religions. No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy for a reason. Trump doesn’t act like respectable Christians expect him to, so that is why they don’t claim him, but he does act like more Christians than they want to admit. Much in the same way the RCC wants to claim their rapist priests are just gay men taking advantage of the church, but they’re priests just like any other priest.
You can be stubborn and keep your opinion on Trump being an atheist. Makes no difference to anyone other than yourself. But your behavior here is just rude.
I would appreciate an explanation of how my behavior here is rude.
(by the way, I'm not the only atheist who thinks Trump is an atheist too. A majority of the people interviewed in the survey also did.) "Overall, 70% of U.S. adults now say Trump is not too or not at all religious...." https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/04/16/americans-have-become-more-likely-to-say-trump-is-not-too-or-not-at-all-religious/
Badgering people about adopting your perspective is rude.
Again, what people think of Trump’s atheism isn’t actually evidence he is. What’s that logical fallacy? Argumentum ad populum.
Thank you. I am not badgering anyone. I assume you feel badgered. THat's up to you.
"I do think that Trump is lying about being religious.
And once more, present your evidence.
𝑆𝑜𝑚𝑒ℎ𝑜𝑤, 𝑏𝑜𝑡ℎ 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑠 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑢𝑒.
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."
George Orwell, 1984
"Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.'
George Orwell, 1984
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell, 1984
The MAGA base has become like Winston Smith at the end of the book afyer his brainwashing. The MAGA leadership knows this, and is using g their power to bring theocracy. It doesn't matter to them what kind of person Trump is, he is their means to their end goal of absolute power that theocracy brings.
The traitor can join the rest of the gods in the rubbish bin. Unfortunately, for the time being, he is real.
𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛𝑠 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑠𝑝𝑒𝑛𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑎𝑠𝑡 𝑑𝑒𝑐𝑎𝑑𝑒 𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑇𝑟𝑢𝑚𝑝 𝑖𝑠 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑜𝑤𝑛
He IS one of their own: they are cultural authoritarian conservatives first, Jesus followers a distant last. Just like him.
The evangelical preachers surrounding Donald Trump can talk about their loving Jesus and the glorious afterlife from now on, but there is nothing they worship so much as power and control on this earthly plain. Power few groups would be more ill-equipped to exercise. Nothing ever demonstrated the disconnect between religion and morality quite like the evangelicals pledging their unconditional love for the most corrupt, incompetent and grotesquely immoral President in our history.
Bingo!
I have to disagree with Hemant here: “but he’ll never say he’s not a Christian, because he knows that would erode the support he needs.”
No, it will not. And I’d be willing to bet $500 that it would not. If they don’t care about his lies, his morals, his adultery, his self proclaimed sexual assault, his cons and grifts, his reviling and slandering, his profanity, his failure to show up in any church more than once a year, his fake lesbian sex porn star wife, his associations with Epstein, his felony convictions, and all the rest of his wrongdoing…
Why would they care at all about his non-Christianity? Their interests are power and money and religious Dominion. they’ve made that very clear. They’ve made every excuse for him already. Why would they stop now?
In one of the best books ever written, Tom Robbins’s “another roadside attraction”, Amanda tells the story of a guy who wanted to show the Folly of religion. So he invented one, and it was wildly successful. After a few years, he gathered all of his disciples and apostles together, and told them that everything he had said was a fake, that he had made the whole thing up. And wasn’t that hilarious? Were they going to learn about religious grifters?
What did they do? They killed him, and went on believing anyways.
Of course, Trump is a Christian, a particular brand of Christian known as Trumpian Christianity. It is a denomination with a particular group of followers, whose primary characteristic is a remarkable adherence to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It is also remarkable in the durability of its belief in its resistance to deconversion.
Which makes it one of the most dangerous forms of Christianity of all of them.
My belief is that anybody who says he’s a Christian is a Christian. It’s not like they have one book with one interpretation and one message from their one God..
The thing is, the word "Christianity" has come to mean so many different and frequently contradictory things to so many people, one wonders that the word could have any genuinely stable definition of its own.
Personally, I wonder about that mightily.
Paraphrasing the immortal words of his Holiness Humpty Dumpty XXX: Christianity means whatever I say it means. Nothing more and nothing less.
Ol' Humpty had a way with words, didn't he? 😁
> "My belief is that anybody who says he’s a Christian is a Christian."
Trump says he is the least racist person on the planet, therefore he IS the least racist person on the planet. No, I don't think so. Lying about having a certain attribute doesn't give you that attribute.
But franklin graham says he’s a christian!!!!
/s
Has the "Trump is an atheist" person gone?
Her whole shtick can be summed up in a cartoon
https://p16-ehi-sg.gauthstatic.com/tos-alisg-i-6e3a8cj6on-sg/bce7e172e4fd42df9ef6dc59c47cde87~tplv-6e3a8cj6on-avif-scale:622:751.avif
Perfect.
I see Hemant actually responded to her.
As an aside, I would like to respond to the alternative the poll offers, that Trump is "not too religious." I would say, no, actually, he's "too damn religious!" He gives those reactionary Christian fanatics exactly what they want, which is, as Mr. Mehta says, lip service to their demands as well as nominating right-wing judges who will bend the law their way. They don't care about his corruption. They're used to that in their megachurch pastors.
Trump says a lot of stupid shit. Whether he professes his faith in God & Jesus or not, he's wrong either way.
His patron saint is Saint Simeon of Salus (aka Simeon the Holy Fool), the primary patron saint of fools.
"Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - O-W. Kenobi
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tp0K9YiTPE
When David Coverdale was dating Tawny Kitaen, who thought he would outlive her?
OT - Idiocracy
𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐇𝐢𝐠𝐡 𝐂𝐨𝐬𝐭 𝐨𝐟 𝐓𝐫𝐮𝐦𝐩’𝐬 𝐖𝐚𝐫 𝐖𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐈𝐫𝐚𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐇𝐨𝐰 𝐘𝐨𝐮 𝐖𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐏𝐚𝐲 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐏𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐞 — 𝐌𝐞𝐢𝐝𝐚𝐬 𝐃𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐞
https://www.meidasplus.com/p/the-high-cost-of-trumps-war-with
Apparently some economists in the Trump admin have done the research and come to the conclusion that without Trump's tariffs, prices would be at pre-covid levels. Farron has something about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR4eKVjI3VU
Was going to post this myself. Thanx.
The stupidity with which the Trump administration has prosecuted the war against Iran would be beyond belief if it weren't fact.
"The stupidity with which the Trump administration has"
That's a hole with no bottom.
Meanwhile, the poor saps on the business end are having to make do without such trivial niceties as... 𝘧𝘰𝘰𝘥: https://www.wonkette.com/p/oh-no-did-pete-hegseth-forget-that
Nevermind that a couple thousand of them are living aboard a ship that suffered a major fire, which wiped out a bunch of their quarters and personal effects, but the ship still hasn't been pulled off the line for 𝘢𝘵 𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘵 repairs and resupply because... reasons? I couldn't blame those sailors if they staged a mutiny, at this point. They're being treated worse than convicts, and considering the state of our prison system, that's really saying something.
I would love to know what Donnie's going to do when the carriers and support ships that are fighting this war can no longer function because their crews have not been fed!
Or when the heady brew of overwork, poor morale, bad nutrition, and deferred maintenance results in a completely predictable fatal catastrophe.
Especially on a NUCLEAR-POWERED CARRIER!
Also worth considering... US munitions stockpiles are getting pretty badly depleted. That means digging deep into reserves of things that go boom which are well past their sell-by date... on top of disregarding safety practices to maintain the operational tempo expected by senior leadership.
If any of 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 sounds familiar...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Oriskany_fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_fire
Oh yeah, we are all going to starve by the end of the year, and food will be sparse for years to come. Since the fertilizer the world uses to grow crops has been stuck in the straight won’t be available for this year’s crops (it’s already too late). As well as the fuel needed to transport anything won’t be available.
OT
Future FA article?
theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/16/young-men-women-religion-survey
Seems to be right up Hemant's alley.
69% of young men feel “no one cares if men are OK”.
One hell of a statement there, and NOT encouraging at all.
Damned sad and just as discouraging.
I have felt that everyone cares, just that they are fighting to keep women suffering. They sure spend a lot of time and energy and legislation ensuring we suffer.
I've said more times than I can count: "I'm glad to help." And that means ANYONE who needs help. It's at least one reason I'm a troubleshooter. It feels GOOD to help, to make a positive difference.
And that's it.
The reason for the recent "surge" in Catholic members? Young Republican males seeking "reason." How pathetically ironic.
PT Barnum has more wisdom to offer than the The Pope.